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Post by Phattso on Jul 18, 2023 11:47:31 GMT
Meanwhile, the EU have a problem with MS bundling Teams with Office, and they have been forced to separate them to appease Slack. I simply fail to understand how the Activision deal isn't orders of magnitude more egregious than this I think you fail to understand the size of the business world, and the impact of the Teams bundling. The Activision thing is a kid's sideshow by comparison. It's a fucking games company. |
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jul 18, 2023 13:10:01 GMT
You might have to explain it to me like I'm 5. Is the fact that they're "just" games companies relevant?
I can't find anything that would suggest that Slack is bigger than Activision, and MS just paid twice Slack's value for it. And the other variable (MS) is the same. Or is the size of the user base more important than revenue?
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jul 18, 2023 13:24:43 GMT
Wasn't there that whole EU ruling about the way MS was abusing their control of windows to force people to use IE? And yet now windows keeps trying to force me to use Edge. Quite why they didn't apply a similar ruling to Apple devices and Safari, and Google devices and Chrome I don't know. Both of the latter allowed easy browser changes, Microsoft made it difficult, or even outright impossible for less technical users. They prevented its removal by breaking the OS if you tried to do so (neither of the others did anything like this). Then, they lied and lied about what they would do and eventually only made the required changes after being taken to court and fined for egregiously breaching the agreement they'd made. And as you say, they keep trying to make you switch back, which is again in breach and has supposedly been under investigation again. I don't mean to absolve Sony or anyone else in any way, but Microsoft has always been the global leader in anti-competitive practice. |
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Jul 18, 2023 14:50:07 GMT
I keep coming back to the fact that, while I think in general huge companies buying up vast chunks of an industry is probably bad, there are so many mitigating factors here that I've always been generally in favour of it. I guess there's a trust issue (eg will MS make good on its promises, will they actually change anything, etc) but the fact that Acti has a terrible corporate culture, and the fact that so many talented devs are just chained to supporting CoD all the time, means there's actually a lot of stuff Microsoft could do that would be really beneficial; and it probably has to be someone of MS's size in order to do it. And, if Acti is looking for a sale, I'd rather a vested gaming company like Xbox was in charge than have them strip-mined for assets or absorbed into someone like Amazon. On the other hand, if this CMA renegotiation ends up with all cloud streaming cut out of Game Pass in the UK, then the whole thing can get in the sea. I’m obviously hugely against it on principle, but you point out the one silver lining (for me at least) in that, Activision Blizzard are the least impactful (to me personally) entity Microsoft could have bought. They’re a dumpster fire and I’m not sure I’ve given them a penny in twenty years. But it still completely stinks, sets a terrible precedent that Microsoft probably won’t stop at, and will see Bobby Kottick ride off with an absolute fortune and no accountability in this lifetime. |
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Post by baihu1983 on Jul 18, 2023 16:58:50 GMT
I think they would have a much harder job getting Take Two done now seeing how long this one dragged out. Would say GTA is too big to let a console maker own. IO would be a good shout but I would think they would be reluctant to have another owner considering how bad it went with SE. They seem to be doing very well by themselves at the moment. Judge in the CAT hearing basically saying the Sony deal should be the end of it and MS and Activision should close the deal today or tomorrow. Challenged the CMA on the quick 180 to want to sit and chat to MS after they took the FTC out of the situation. Sounds like even he just wants it all to be done now. Feels like it's been about 2 years since it was first announced. I think this whole affair only proves Microsoft have carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want. Might makes right. The court case made it clear. One will use its money to do what it wants and the other will use it's marketplace dominance to do whatever it wants. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2023 17:04:04 GMT
pray for brother aubergine
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Post by Phattso on Jul 18, 2023 18:50:03 GMT
You might have to explain it to me like I'm 5. Is the fact that they're "just" games companies relevant? I can't find anything that would suggest that Slack is bigger than Activision, and MS just paid twice Slack's value for it. And the other variable (MS) is the same. Or is the size of the user base more important than revenue? Way to ignore the rest of my argument. A tool that competes in literally all sectors for billions of users, vs. A games publisher. So yes. It’s relevant. Others aren’t really hurt in competition terms by this merger. Teams being bundled in the second most ubiquitous piece of software on the planet (after the OS itself) by comparison has massive implications for global competition. It isn’t that hard to grasp. It really isn’t. The relevant authorities looked a the Acti merger. They demanded and got certain remedies. System working as intended. |
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Post by technoish on Jul 18, 2023 19:33:10 GMT
Hear hear, major nelson.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jul 18, 2023 19:37:01 GMT
WTF, take a breath man
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2023 19:38:18 GMT
Wow, phattso is rough on 5 year olds.
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Post by Phattso on Jul 18, 2023 20:19:42 GMT
:-D
Like I give a fuck. It was the comparison of the games industry to something like Teams. I mean, I get it. I love the hobby too. But compared to stuff like that gaming barely moves the needle!
As someone rightly said on the previous page, MS have absolute form for that kind of shit. And the Teams play is violently anti competitive and very rightly the system has told them to fuck off. The Acti merger really can’t be seen in the same scummy light, imho.
Also: fuck five year olds!
Wait…
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jul 18, 2023 20:26:32 GMT
That's the forum on another watch list.
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Jul 19, 2023 2:40:05 GMT
I think this whole affair only proves Microsoft have carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want. Might makes right. The court case made it clear. One will use its money to do what it wants and the other will use its marketplace dominance to do whatever it wants. Microsoft are using their marketplace dominance of PC to do whatever it wants. What do you characterise as Sony “doing whatever it wants”? Making deals with publishers instead of outright buying them? The villains! You guys remind me of those nutters who said there was no substantive difference between Trump and Clinton in the lead up to 2016. |
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Post by baihu1983 on Jul 19, 2023 4:24:43 GMT
If Sony could afford it they would try and buy some big publishers.
And yes it's been shown that Sony are able to outright block many 3rd party games from going to Xbox.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Jul 19, 2023 5:22:18 GMT
Apparently the deadline to finish the acquisition was yesterday, otherwise they would have to either pay a premium per share to extend it, or renegotiate the deal. Would be kind of ironic if the only people this whole FTC and CMA thing benefitted were the Acti shareholders.
Well, I suppose it's still not midnight in the west coast, but... just barely.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jul 19, 2023 5:33:13 GMT
Yeah they extended it rather than just close the deal then sort out the CMA as they don't want it to look bad in regards to future acquisitions.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jul 19, 2023 6:42:51 GMT
Something, something, stable door, something something bolted.
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Jul 19, 2023 7:20:44 GMT
If Sony could afford it they would try and buy some big publishers. And yes it's been shown that Sony are able to outright block many 3rd party games from going to Xbox. The fact they can’t is why we have competition watchdogs. And no, I can’t think of a single name of one off the top of my head either, but it’s absurd to suggest that Microsoft and Nintendo never negotiate exclusives. Microsoft did a ton of it during the Xbox and 360 generations and one of the reasons their games division is trailing is that they STOPPED doing it. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 19, 2023 7:30:44 GMT
I didn't know this very forum had Microsoft and Sony's lawyers among its ranks.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jul 19, 2023 10:56:58 GMT
I didn't know this very forum had Microsoft and Sony's lawyers among its ranks. All in the stuff that got released/reported on from the FTC case. Spencer confirmed Sony are blocking the FF7 and Silent Hill remakes from coming to Xbox. Said they got word that Sony was trying to take Starfield away from Xbox completely which is what made them step in and buy the company. |
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Derblington
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Did you know I have a girlfriend
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Post by Derblington on Jul 19, 2023 11:25:16 GMT
You would have thought with all the billions they could have just paid for some exclusivity here and there, like they did with the X360, instead of trying to own half the industry.
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KD
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Post by KD on Jul 19, 2023 12:07:04 GMT
Just me dreading the possibility of the Wow sub being put into gamepass? I chose life and cancelled my unhealthy habit of playing that game a decade ago.
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Jul 19, 2023 13:45:19 GMT
Just me dreading the possibility of the Wow sub being put into gamepass? I chose life and cancelled my unhealthy habit of playing that game a decade ago. Can't see that ever happening. It didn't for ESO so I wouldn't expect this to be different . |
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Jul 19, 2023 15:05:51 GMT
I didn't know this very forum had Microsoft and Sony's lawyers among its ranks. All in the stuff that got released/reported on from the FTC case. Spencer confirmed Sony are blocking the FF7 and Silent Hill remakes from coming to Xbox. Said they got word that Sony was trying to take Starfield away from Xbox completely which is what made them step in and buy the company. I wonder about that last bit. It would have taken a very, very large amount of dough to make the biggest Bethesda game in a decade exclusive to one console, even if it were the market leader. |
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Jul 19, 2023 15:18:57 GMT
malek86 Sony recently did some content exclusive deals for CoD (IIRC, that was MS privilege back in the x360 days) and also managed to keep it out of GamePass; it's not entirely unfathomable they would try something similar with Starfield, although full exclusivity does seem rather far-fetched...
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Jul 19, 2023 15:20:42 GMT
All in the stuff that got released/reported on from the FTC case. Spencer confirmed Sony are blocking the FF7 and Silent Hill remakes from coming to Xbox. Said they got word that Sony was trying to take Starfield away from Xbox completely which is what made them step in and buy the company. I wonder about that last bit. It would have taken a very, very large amount of dough to make the biggest Bethesda game in a decade exclusive to one console, even if it were the market leader. I don’t find it credible. Bethesda were close with Microsoft a long time, Xbox gave them better access for their mods strategy, Morrowind was an Xbox exclusive and Oblivion a timed exclusive, and their games obviously *worked better* on Xbox 360 than PS3. Sony were obviously talking to Bethesda about timed exclusives and got Deathloop out of it, and probably said “what about?” with various titles. Bethesda and Xbox had clearly been courting each other for sale for a significant amount of time and Bethesda probably said “hey Sony sounded us out about Starfield as an exclusive” as part of their negotiating, but the notion that Microsoft heard this and went “oh fuck we’d better buy them quick!” and bought Bethesda, ID and all the rest based on that is horseshit. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 19, 2023 15:22:09 GMT
All in the stuff that got released/reported on from the FTC case. Spencer confirmed Sony are blocking the FF7 and Silent Hill remakes from coming to Xbox. Said they got word that Sony was trying to take Starfield away from Xbox completely which is what made them step in and buy the company. I wonder about that last bit. It would have taken a very, very large amount of dough to make the biggest Bethesda game in a decade exclusive to one console, even if it were the market leader. I guess it depends what the deal entailed, if it was something like the Sf5 deal where they funded the development of it, then I could see how that could happen because I'm sure I read Bethesda were going through some financial difficulties after the release of Fallout 76. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 15:46:07 GMT
aubie’s gonna cry himself to sleep
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Jul 19, 2023 15:51:45 GMT
aubie’s gonna cry himself to sleep It’s honestly strange you inferring that I have the emotional development of a twelve year-old in a post that makes it sound like you have the emotional development of a twelve year-old, but hey, keep those contributions coming. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 15:52:41 GMT
Will do.
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