zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,980
|
Post by zephro on Jun 26, 2023 13:42:31 GMT
I'm not particularly bothered about any given game, as the only console I have is a Switch and I've got fuck all intention of buying either of the others regardless. No space for one, for one thing.
I'm bothered by the previous rounds of retrenchment when Xbox initially came out. Well one previous round of this everlasting bun-fight. It's not wholly the console wars, as at the same time Game/Electronic's Boutique were scaling back PC releases due to piracy and game budgets were going through the roof.
Anyhow that said. Last time people went hard on exclusives, ports would come late and they'd come out shit. Or for PC sometimes never at all, despite not really being involved (Grand Theft Auto). Or games would end up tweaked to work on the XBox, so the Thief and Deus Ex sequels were massively scaled back to fit in XBox memory and work on a controller. Several genres just died for good because all focus went to the consoles, so combat flight sims like X-Wing/Freespace vanished, immersive sims died on their arse after Invisible War, point and click adventures just vanished after Grim Fandango, strategy went through a somewhat bleak period. FPS's stepped away from the more immersive sim bits of NOLF2 and went full Halo, CRPGs went from Baldur's Gate to KOTOR and Dragon Age 2 (KOTOR is great but fuck that control system).
Or just the whole previous period of dick waving over Games for Windows Live and its shite storefront.
We've been going through a quite nice period from my point of view with lots of stuff coming out on various PC storefronts and working on various OSs. (side note, I continue to be fucked off with Apple for going for Metal API instead of Vulkan)
So the MS purchases that really bother me were basically Bethesda (don't give a monkey's about Starfield). As I can see them basically deciding Arkane's output is too specialist and fucking it up. Or making Obsidian's output friendly, so they stop doing isometric CRPGs. I don't really play any Activision-Blizzard games, but MS hovering stuff up (indirectly) has a history of fucking up my favourite genres.
A recent positive is that for the first time ever first-party PS games are out on PC. But they are all basically within the same genre. Basically Guerrilla, Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Insomniac all put out roughly the same thing. So it's not like it's a world of innovation over there.
TLDR; these activities have a historic habit of making the whole market narrower and more boring. Even if they're doing it indirectly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 26, 2023 13:45:03 GMT
TBF, MS are quite hands off with their studios, Bethesda has a lot of autonomy and stuff like Redfall was alllllll Bethesda and their obsession with live service at that time so I disagree that MS would funnel studios down a specific path, at present it's very much the opposite. I would even say being very hands off has been to their detriment of late.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 13:50:54 GMT
Sure. There are obviously factors at play that you may not have anticipated though, like 1st party buying the company whos game you were excited to play when you chose your ecosystem, etc.
Exactly - the situation with Starfield isn't akin to, say, buying a PlayStation and then being pissy that you can't play Halo on it, or purchasing an Xbox before getting huffy that the Uncharted games are outside your chosen ecosystem.
Regardless of who's making them, each of these acquisitions (big and small) shifts the goalposts quite dramatically.
I mean, it kind of is, though. The Bethesda purchase was announced before either console was available for pre-order. I know this, because it’s the exact reason I even considered the Series X, if I’m being honest. I was ready to go one console (PS5) for once, then the buyout was announced, and it was “shit, guess I’m getting both after all.” The expectation that PS-only owners had that they’d continue to release everything on it was and is kind of silly. |
|
Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,070
|
Post by Ulythium on Jun 26, 2023 14:06:34 GMT
The Bethesda purchase was announced before either console was available for pre-order.
Microsoft announced their intention to buy Bethesda on September 21, 2020; my PS5 pre-order with Amazon was placed on September 17. (This may be explained by different pre-order dates in different territories, but I'd still ordered my PS5 before the acquisition was mooted.) Personally, I had no such expectations. Hopes? Sort of. Expectations? Nah - I'm far too much of a grouchy old cynic for that 
However, the fact remains that MS could've nipped all the "Will they, won't they?" speculation in the bud at any time, and instead chose to be evasive about the issue while it suited them to play along with the possibility. As soon as the ink on the paperwork was dry, they stopped being coy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 14:18:05 GMT
Well, definitely before the Series S|X were up for pre/order. My mistake, I do recall now that PS5 pre-orders were a few days earlier. Even still, it was before anyone’s credit cards were charged and before they had a console in-hand.
Not saying it’s viable for everyone to cancel one pre-order and switch to another. Shit, even I waited six months after the Xbox launched before picking one up, whereas I snagged a PS5 at launch. But the news was out there before anyone completed their purchase.
|
|
Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,070
|
Post by Ulythium on Jun 26, 2023 14:26:03 GMT
But the news was out there before anyone completed their purchase.
That's definitely true (although MS continued to dodge the issue of exclusivity for Starfield until the Zenimax deal had been finalised in March 2021, long after the initial batch of next-gen consoles had arrived in scalpers' gamers' hands in November 2020). |
|
|
|
Post by Phattso on Jun 26, 2023 14:27:59 GMT
Takeovers are a funny time anyway, but absolutely a silly time for executives to be making declarative public statements. It was always going to be vague until the ink was on the paper. I don't think you can attribute too much malicious intent to that. Most people with working brains had figured it out already.
|
|
Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,070
|
Post by Ulythium on Jun 26, 2023 14:33:26 GMT
Takeovers are a funny time anyway, but absolutely a silly time for executives to be making declarative public statements. It was always going to be vague until the ink was on the paper. I don't think you can attribute too much malicious intent to that. Most people with working brains had figured it out already.
I wouldn't have minded so much if they'd just been, "No comment" when asked about it, but the, "Aw, shucks, I dunno - we might, I guess! Only time will tell, nudge-wink" coyness rubbed me the wrong way.
My brain (functional or otherwise!) told me it was almost certainly a lost cause, but I continued to hold out a vague sliver of hope until MS made their intentions clear. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 14:35:53 GMT
I feel like the quote was “when it makes sense,” and to me it just never made sense for them to release new IP on PS5. Established IP fit more in with the “we’ll evaluate when the time comes.” Minecraft being the big example.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2023 14:43:14 GMT
It's not just digital games though, it's the systems around that too - the UX of the console family and controller, trophy history, friend lists, reward programs. It's all designed, now more than ever, to keep you invested in one place and it works. I still think to a large extent that's people creating a problem. It doesn't take long to find your way around a new interface - it's not programming a VCR. Personally had no problem switching from a PS controller to an Xbox one despite 2 generations on Playstation. I didn't even give it a second thought to be honest. A lot of people also have a Switch in addition to Xbox/PS which has a different controller and UI and everything. I don't ever see people saying they'd get a Switch but don't think they'd be able to adapt to it. A lot of it sounds like stubbornness or not wanting change (or misguided loyalty)
My point was mainly about it being a reason to not buy digital games though
|
|
aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
|
Post by aubergine on Jun 26, 2023 15:03:08 GMT
I can’t really allow myself to drop another $750 on a second console to play one game, and I don’t allow games on my laptop or I’d never get any work done.
My approach has always been that the platform holders have to fight to the death for my money, and that the other consoles having exclusives that I envy is a good sign for games development overall. But that’s generally been, games developed by the platform holder, eg Zelda or Shadow of the Colossus, The Last of Us etc. Microsoft using their OS Monopoly money to hoover up major publishers (who themselves did many hoover manoeuvres) to get exclusives for their untenable game pass strategy (also underwritten by their non-game monopoly money) is just a scorched earth policy to kill off their competition. It hasn’t appeared to be leading them to foster good development. Or, at least, not any games that would make me look sideways at the Series X in the way that Tears of the Kingdom would.
What weird is that they seemed to really try, like, 20 years ago, but towards the end of the 360’s cycle (I’m guessing when Don Mattrick became involved) they seemed to almost completely drop the idea of funding games development, or the games they did fund were off my radar for whatever reason and my take on it is unfair. I’m betting it’s a bit of both.
|
|
aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
|
Post by aubergine on Jun 26, 2023 15:09:44 GMT
I feel like the quote was “when it makes sense,” and to me it just never made sense for them to release new IP on PS5. Established IP fit more in with the “we’ll evaluate when the time comes.” Minecraft being the big example. Mojang were careful to get Minecraft out on PlayStation 4 a good couple months before the announcement they were selling to Microsoft. You can bet that Sony were livid behind the scenes. Minecraft has not had an official release on ps5 nor on series x, though I believe the ps4 version runs with an improved draw distance on ps5. I’m not actually sure if there’s an example of a platform-owned developer having a game out on a rival console before this. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 15:13:59 GMT
I feel like the quote was “when it makes sense,” and to me it just never made sense for them to release new IP on PS5. Established IP fit more in with the “we’ll evaluate when the time comes.” Minecraft being the big example. Mojang were careful to get Minecraft out on PlayStation 4 a good couple months before the announcement they were selling to Microsoft. You can bet that Sony were livid behind the scenes. Minecraft has not had an official release on ps5 nor on series x, though I believe the ps4 version runs with an improved draw distance on ps5. I’m not actually sure if there’s an example of a platform-owned developer having a game out on a rival console before this. all the spin-offs are still released on PlayStations too, alongside Switch (though that point’s a bit moot, since neither Sony or MS see Nintendo as a rival). But yeah, Minecraft is actually a good example of their “when it makes sense” strategy, because they’ve never not released new entries or updates on PlayStation. That’s what I figured they’d do with Call of Duty as well, though again, not so much with something like Starfield. |
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2023 15:14:34 GMT
MS released Ori on Switch. They're the good guys
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jun 26, 2023 15:22:03 GMT
My main issue with Microsoft is that their first party stuff has felt quite stale for far too long.
Nintendo use the same franchises but innovate mechanically within them and Sony have a steady(ish) stream of new IP, even if they go to the 3rd person action well a little too often.
Halo, Gears and the like have been stuck in a rut for the longest time.
|
|
|
|
Post by paulyboy81 on Jun 26, 2023 15:28:36 GMT
I can’t really allow myself to drop another $750 on a second console to play one game, Admittedly playing devil's advocate here, but as previously mentioned in this thread, figures of $750 or £600 to play this game are just bonkers. A second hand Series S and a couple months of Game Pass will cost a fraction of that. You could even be super thrifty, rinse the game and flog the console for more or less what you paid for it, the whole endeavour would probably cost less than the £70 you'd have paid for Starfield on PS5 in the alternate universe it released there. Not excusing the situation, it sucks Bethesda fans invested into PlayStation are missing out, Microsoft are bad, Phil Spencer is the devil and so forth, etc, etc. But let's not pretend those desperate to try this game have to part with half a grand or more for the privilege. |
|
Psiloc
Junior Member
Posts: 1,566
|
Post by Psiloc on Jun 26, 2023 15:33:28 GMT
Who wants a Series S though
|
|
aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
|
Post by aubergine on Jun 26, 2023 15:34:24 GMT
I hadn’t seen this: it’s in a Eurogamer article about whether Starfield has a physical disc.
“ We've contacted Bethesda for clarification on what the situation is with copies here, and will update when we hear back.
Microsoft's decision to keep Bethesda's games exclusive is "powerful evidence" against its Activision Blizzard takeover bid, US antitrust agency the Federal Trade Commission has said.
Earlier this month, the FTC succeeded in getting a temporary ban placed on Microsoft's $68.7bn Activision Blizzard buyout bid. Now, ahead of an upcoming hearing regarding the agency's request for a preliminary injunction, the FTC has submitted further documentation on the matter.”
|
|
Psiloc
Junior Member
Posts: 1,566
|
Post by Psiloc on Jun 26, 2023 15:34:26 GMT
Obviously no-one knows for a fact yet, but considering it's Bethesda, I'm betting that "buy a Series S to play Starfield" will turn out to be terrible advice
|
|
aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
|
Post by aubergine on Jun 26, 2023 15:37:17 GMT
Who wants a Series S though Yeah there’s zero chance I’d do that, but sure, if I was desperate to play a thing, sure. Someone could do that. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 15:37:24 GMT
Obviously no-one knows for a fact yet, but considering it's Bethesda, I'm betting that "buy a Series S to play Starfield" will turn out to be terrible advice It’s the same CPU, isn’t it? As long as they don’t try to go too high with the resolution, it should be fine. …is less RAM though. Nevermind. PS3 Skyrim about to make a comeback. |
|
|
|
Post by paulyboy81 on Jun 26, 2023 15:38:15 GMT
To be fair, "considering it's Bethesda", playing it on a £2,000 PC is probably also likely to be bad advice, haha.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jun 26, 2023 15:39:04 GMT
I love my Series S  Edit - Playing on a TV that isn't even 1080p softens the blow of limited hardware. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 15:39:46 GMT
Will you still love it on your new C2 OLED though, rhaegs?
|
|
KD
Junior Member
RIP EG
Posts: 1,325
Member is Online
|
Post by KD on Jun 26, 2023 15:40:02 GMT
Do you guys know anyone with a console to borrow? Or grab a pube filled one from the local cash generator and trade it back afterwards.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jun 26, 2023 15:44:02 GMT
Will you still love it on your new C2 OLED though, rhaegs? Of course! It's the little console that could! Just upgrading the TV will be a big enough jump for me. ....hopefully. |
|
|
|
Post by dfunked on Jun 26, 2023 15:55:26 GMT
Oh sweet summer child...
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2023 16:12:02 GMT
Do you guys know anyone with a console to borrow? Or grab a pube filled one from the local cash generator and trade it back afterwards. Keep the pubes. Profit |
|
|
|
Post by paulyboy81 on Jun 26, 2023 16:14:04 GMT
Will you still love it on your new C2 OLED though, rhaegs? Of course! It's the little console that could! Just upgrading the TV will be a big enough jump for me. ....hopefully. Probably spend more time on my Series S than X these days. Partly because my heathen children have commandeered the X in the den to play Fortnite, but mostly because I'm up most nights dealing with my son's blood sugars, so whittling away the hours on the S in the bedroom has become common place. It's absolutely fine on a 48" 4K OLED (doubly so if you have VRR). As a lapsed PC gamer I tend to gravitate towards the big boy consoles or the Pro/X refreshes generally, but spending time on the S just reinforces that I'm starting to care less and less about such things, or that I'm just too old to give a toss. I'm sure Starfield will be fine on the Series S, if other "1440p" (yes, yes I know it's reconstructed) 30fps titles like Gotham Knights or Redfall are anything to go by it should hold up fairly well all things considered. But it's Bethesda, so erm, yeah, fingers (and toes) crossed. |
|
Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,070
|
Post by Ulythium on Jun 26, 2023 16:19:49 GMT
(Just to be clear, I'm looking at this conversation as a friendly exchange of ideas - I know intentions don't always come across in print, and I'd hate to come across as a belligerent, has-an-answer-for-everything twat! That truly isn't my intention in continuing to reply in this thread, and I hope that's cool with everyone. If not, I'll willingly STFU.)
I get the 'new IP' argument in many cases, but I don't think it applies in quite the same way to Starfield or Redfall because both Bethesda and Arkane have such well-established fanbases already; to me, the names of those devs are bigger than their specific IPs, 'cause people already love Fallout/Elder Scrolls and Dishonored/Prey.
So if the 'new IP' argument is being used to say that it's too risky a proposition to release across platforms, or that it's somehow less unfair to deprive PlayStation of Starfield than it would be for TES6, I respect your opinion but I don't see it that way myself.
All that having been said, what's done is done - I can pout like a toddler with a freshly-spanked posterior, and stamp my feet like a tap-dancer on Fry's 100-cups-of-coffee diet, but it won't change a bloody thing!
|
|
