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Post by Vandelay on Jun 23, 2023 13:56:49 GMT
And I’m completely serious about Xbox not really pursuing great secrecy because their hardware hasn’t been making a big deal on innovation. Nintendo obviously does, and Sony always keeps some cards up its sleeve (eg, surprise reveal of 8GB GDDR5 in the PS4, which I think Digital Foundry had posited would be impossible at the time, surprise reveal of PS5 using more advanced SSD than expected for instant loading in games like Rift Apart) but Microsoft’s strategy since Kinect 2 was a flop has been to simply try and make something decent and reliable. The Series X seems like really good hardware, but if anyone wants to list something really special it does that Microsoft would want to keep secret, be my guest. Their strategy is all about Game Pass. The approach doesn't really seem that different for either console manufacture nowadays in terms of hardware though. There isn't any reason why Microsoft couldn't suddenly announce a slightly more powerful doodad or more MHz piping through their thingamajig a month before releasing their upcoming console, but fundamentally the two systems aren't that different when you look at the architecture. Either party making a slight last minute boost to their system doesn't really change the way a developer is going to construct their game. Sony were bitten when they went down the whole customised architecture with their Cell processor, which proved to be a nightmare for developers to work with and get anywhere near the theoretical power it was supposed to have. Since then, they have gone much more straightforward, much like Microsoft, and made a system that is made from very slightly customised components. Decent and reliable is the path both of them take nowadays (even Nintendo aren't going that wild, using well established mobile architecture for the Switch and I don't think anyone is really expecting them to not just make a Switch 2 using something similar).
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Post by dfunked on Jun 23, 2023 14:00:24 GMT
Aye, you can pretty much guarantee that the next consoles from both will just be a newer generation of whatever AMD are offering. I'd say Sony probably wouldn't even bother with fancy pants SSD tech again. Just whack a gen5 drive in there and away you go.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 23, 2023 14:04:19 GMT
Apart from Nintendo you pretty much know what to expect. Only question is who will come out with the uglier design.
Though I can see Nintendo playing it safe next time and just releasing a more powerful Switch.
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Post by dangerousdave on Jun 23, 2023 14:40:59 GMT
As a Nintendo fan (that owns two Xbox consoles) this whole thing means so little to me. It’s very rare I play anything published by Activision, and when I do it’s hardly essential.
I remember back in the PS2 era folk said not having EA as a publisher would kill your console of, like the Dreamcast, but I’ve been living a gaming life that is almost completely void of EA and Activision and it’s been amazing. Honestly, just let Microsoft take Activision and ruin the studios, waste the IP and create a big hole in the market for new talent to fill.
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Post by paulyboy81 on Jun 23, 2023 14:51:42 GMT
I know it's childish, but I was clinging to the (increasingly unlikely) hope that the deal would go through just so I could watch Twitter, NeoGaf and aubergine absolutely lose their minds.
Plus maybe as an aside the vague hope that MS would make Raven software develop Star Trek Elite Force 2.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 15:11:06 GMT
As a Nintendo fan (that owns two Xbox consoles) this whole thing means so little to me. It’s very rare I play anything published by Activision, and when I do it’s hardly essential. I’ve always owned all three company’s consoles, and used to feel the same. I’ve always liked Blizzard’s games, but didn’t play much on the Activision side. I was like, who cares about Call of Duty? Bethesda is the bigger get! While I probably do still find the Bethesda purchase the bigger deal (even if not much has come from it as of yet aside from Hi-Fi Rush…), I’ve been playing through a few Call of Duty campaigns lately, and turns out… I kind of like them! I haven’t dabbled in the multiplayer and not sure I will, as I still have flashbacks of walking into a room and getting shot immediately, countless of times, on 360. But the idea of having the campaigns on GamePass for a quick playthrough of the story mode, then immediate uninstall and move onto something else is kinda nice. Also, I think PS2 hype over its apparent* superior hardware, and the inclusion of a DVD player killed the Dreamcast off more than a loss of EA. I think people enjoyed the (Sega owned) 2K sports games well enough, reviews for them often being higher than scores for the EA-developed equivalent titles. *(I say “apparent” because while later in PS2’s life cycle, there were certainly games that pushed beyond what the Dreamcast managed in its admittedly very short life span, that wasn’t the case in the first few years, when often multiplat games looked worse on it. A bit like the 360 and PS3, actually)
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 23, 2023 15:13:11 GMT
I know it's childish, but I was clinging to the (increasingly unlikely) hope that the deal would go through just so I could watch Twitter, NeoGaf and aubergine absolutely lose their minds. Plus maybe as an aside the vague hope that MS would make Raven software develop Star Trek Elite Force 2. Surely you mean Elite Force 3 - www.gog.com/game/star_trek_elite_force_ii
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 23, 2023 15:17:14 GMT
Just going to say Yes! I enjoyed Sega Sport games.
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Post by paulyboy81 on Jun 23, 2023 15:23:31 GMT
I know it's childish, but I was clinging to the (increasingly unlikely) hope that the deal would go through just so I could watch Twitter, NeoGaf and aubergine absolutely lose their minds. Plus maybe as an aside the vague hope that MS would make Raven software develop Star Trek Elite Force 2. Surely you mean Elite Force 3 - www.gog.com/game/star_trek_elite_force_iiYeah sorry totally forgot about about this one. Which is odd as I literally had the cases for both in my hand about 2 weeks ago clearing out my old PC shite from my parents loft. I always preferred the Raven original so tend to scrub this from my brain, even though if memory serves, it wasn't half bad either.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 23, 2023 15:26:39 GMT
I know it's childish, but I was clinging to the (increasingly unlikely) hope that the deal would go through just so I could watch Twitter, NeoGaf and aubergine absolutely lose their minds. Plus maybe as an aside the vague hope that MS would make Raven software develop Star Trek Elite Force 2. Still the chance MS wins this case. Closes the deal then takes Activision out of the UK unless the CMA comes to to some concessions with MS. MS have already said Activision will be kept separate.
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 23, 2023 15:33:45 GMT
Yeah sorry totally forgot about about this one. Which is odd as I literally had the cases for both in my hand about 2 weeks ago clearing out my old PC shite from my parents loft. I always preferred the Raven original so tend to scrub this from my brain, even though if memory serves, it wasn't half bad either. It was ok. The first was definitely better though. Not that I remember much about the second one, to be honest. My main memory is of you spending most of the time shooting giant bugs. Still probably one of the better Star Trek games though.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 23, 2023 20:23:17 GMT
Phil Spencer's now claiming - in court, no less! - that The Elder Scrolls VI may yet come to PlayStation, and that platforms haven't been decided yet as the game is still c. 5 years away.
I can believe him re the timing of its eventual release, but the rest is pure bullshit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 20:31:23 GMT
I could see it happening, same with CoD. Sony would only get 30% of the sales, right? 70% goes to the publisher, ie, Microsoft. So it’s less profitable to keep it off PS.
But “we won’t give them the specs” Ryan is another story.
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 23, 2023 20:46:55 GMT
The same is true of Starfield, and Spencer was full of mealy-mouthed, evasive waffle when the issue of exclusivity for that game was first mooted. As soon as the ink was dry on the Zenimax acquisition, his tune was less, "We're not doing this to keep games away from players on other platforms", and more, "Hey, PlayStation - Star feel deez nuts!"
As far as I'm concerned, both PS/Xbox and Ryan/Spencer are every bit as bad as one another.
EDIT: Holy bitterness overload, Batman! Sorry, Spookmeister - said bile is directed solely at Sony/MS, not you. I hope that was clear.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 20:58:51 GMT
I don’t think Starfield was ever considered for PS5 though. Then again, I didn’t think that of Indy or Redfall either, considering their announcements were post-Bethesda buyout’s announcement. But I think with Call of Duty, and to a lesser extent Elder Scrolls, there’s too big of established audience there to ignore. With a new IP, you have more leeway to focus it where you please. The quote was never that they wouldn’t have exclusives, rather that it wasn’t about exclusives, but about building their first party portfolio. There’s a nuance there, because you don’t spend $70billion or whatever to strengthen your rival, but you see where and when keeping that relationship going makes sense.
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 23, 2023 21:08:18 GMT
The FTC thinks that Starfield was planned for PS5 prior to the MS takeover of Zenimax: www.gamespot.com/articles/starfield-was-planned-for-ps5-prior-to-microsofts-zenimax-acquisition-ftc-says/1100-6515427/I'm inclined to believe it, with all of BGS's games from... what, Oblivion?... onwards being multiplatform. Harvey Smith recently came out and said that Redfall was being developed for PS5 before Arkane were told by their new paymasters to scrap those plans. (Not much of a loss, as it turned out ) I see what you're saying about Starfield being a new IP versus Elder Scrolls being established, really I do; I just think the former would've sold like gangbusters on PS5 anyway, with people being hungry for a new BGS release that wasn't TES or Fallout, and Microsoft still had no qualms about throwing away those sales in the name of exclusivity. I'll put money on them taking the exact same approach with TES6.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 21:14:49 GMT
As an aside, among all the “but what about Bungie?!?!?!?,” I was really kind of amazed that they announced Marathon reboot was coming to Xbox also. Figured that’d be PS5 and PC only.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 23, 2023 21:24:07 GMT
As an aside, among all the “but what about Bungie?!?!?!?,” I was really kind of amazed that they announced Marathon reboot was coming to Xbox also. Figured that’d be PS5 and PC only. I believe after their MS acquisition Bungie didn't want to be tied down like that. Sony bought them purely for their live service consultancy seeing as they've got 14 live service games in development. They're the reason that Last of Us Factions is has been "retooled for development" as it were.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 24, 2023 15:03:53 GMT
Yeah Bungie got themselves in a really good place with the buy. Think they are working on a PS exclusive though? Or rumored to be?
So seems the FTC or at at least its lawyer doesn't know how acquisitions work
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Post by aubergine on Jun 24, 2023 15:06:57 GMT
I don’t think Starfield was ever considered for PS5 though. Then again, I didn’t think that of Indy or Redfall either, considering their announcements were post-Bethesda buyout’s announcement. But I think with Call of Duty, and to a lesser extent Elder Scrolls, there’s too big of established audience there to ignore. With a new IP, you have more leeway to focus it where you please. The quote was never that they wouldn’t have exclusives, rather that it wasn’t about exclusives, but about building their first party portfolio. There’s a nuance there, because you don’t spend $70billion or whatever to strengthen your rival, but you see where and when keeping that relationship going makes sense. I hadn’t really considered the argument that Starfield, as a new IP, was higher risk than Elder Scrolls, because I think everyone alive just assumes it will be a hit no matter what they do. I’ve got huge doubts about the game based on what little I’ve seen, but I also expect it to sell a shit-ton. Who knows, PlayStation may even get it after 12 months Xbox exclusivity if the game is a massive hit.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 24, 2023 15:16:32 GMT
I thought ES and Fallout would stay Multiplatform due to them having a large fanbase off Xbox. Would seem odd to not want to release all 6 versions of ESIV on PS consoles.
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 24, 2023 15:27:39 GMT
Starfield may not have an existing fanbase on any platform as things stand, 'cause it's not out yet, but it *does* have a ready-made audience made up of fans of Bethesda's previous work. As Aubergine says, it was always going to sell well.
This isn't a new IP along the lines of, say, Forspoken - it's Elder Scrolls/Fallout in space, or Bethesda's answer to Mass Effect, or however one wishes to frame it.
I don't believe for a nanosecond that MS decided to keep Starfield to themselves because they thought it might not sell well enough to justify a multi-platform release.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 15:32:21 GMT
Oh, that’s not what I was implying. Statistically, 100% of games would sell better on PS than elsewhere, including Halo if they decided to port that over. There’s just more PS owners than anything else.
But when you buy a company, you do want some exclusive titles to make your platform look like the place to be, and you have more of an excuse with a new IP than one that already has an established following on your rival platform.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 24, 2023 16:08:45 GMT
Starfield may not have an existing fanbase on any platform as things stand, 'cause it's not out yet, but it *does* have a ready-made audience made up of fans of Bethesda's previous work. As Aubergine says, it was always going to sell well. This isn't a new IP along the lines of, say, Forspoken - it's Elder Scrolls/Fallout in space, or Bethesda's answer to Mass Effect, or however one wishes to frame it. I don't believe for a nanosecond that MS decided to keep Starfield to themselves because they thought it might not sell well enough to justify a multiplatform release. Pete Hines claimed it would be releasing next year if it was still multiplatform.
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 24, 2023 16:20:51 GMT
Pete Hines claimed it would be releasing next year if it was still multiplatform.
Yeah, I saw that yesterday, along with a claim that it may have skipped Xbox altogether if MS hadn't bought Zenimax (!).
I don't think a 12-month delay would justifiy console exclusivity in any way - not least because the game has already been delayed by the best part of a year, and another delay wouldn't be the end of the world - but both parties (i.e. Sony and Microsoft) will say *anything* to make themselves look better at this point, and I'm disinclined to put too much stock in this public to-ing and fro-ing.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jun 24, 2023 16:24:08 GMT
Yeah Spencer said they got word Sony was looking to take it from Xbox(completely) and said it played a massive part in them buying Bethesda.
But wouldn't that mean they knew how big the game could be so should have kept it Multiplatform?
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 24, 2023 16:30:43 GMT
Yeah Spencer said they got word Sony was looking to take it from Xbox(completely) and said it played a massive part in them buying Bethesda.
If true - and I can believe it, given Sony's track record in this regard - I think that's every bit as scummy as Microsoft buying Bethesda and keeping Starfield to themselves.
Sony's approach would've had an adverse impact upon Xbox owners; Microsoft's has had an adverse impact upon PlayStation owners. At the end of the day, it's gamers who lose out while two corporate behemoths engage in infantile one-upmanship.
I dunno, dude - *I* certainly think it would've been compelling evidence in favour of a multiplat release, had MS ever contemplated such an approach, but I'm (obviously) pretty biased in this regard!
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 24, 2023 19:09:15 GMT
Isn't the whole point of exclusives to make people buy your console?
Seems pretty straightfoward why they'd make it exclusive - lots of people will want to play it and anyone without an Xbox will need to get one. The fact it would sell more on Playstation is the problem
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 24, 2023 19:42:14 GMT
Perhaps, but Microsoft isn't making that argument:
If they're not viewing Starfield as a 'system seller', and instead want to "[generate] profit through game sales rather than console sales", why not make it available on every platform on which it'll run and snag 70% of each sale?
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 24, 2023 19:45:51 GMT
Ultimately, speaking as a PlayStation owner who a) loves Fallout and Elder Scrolls, and b) can't afford to buy, or justify owning, a second console, I'm not all that concerned about the whys and wherefores of Starfield's Xbox exclusivity - I'm just bitterly disappointed that I won't be able to play the game, is all. I know, I hide said bitterness well
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