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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 18, 2023 9:50:59 GMT
No, no, Ian Watkins. It's an easily made mistake TBF. |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Sept 18, 2023 10:00:27 GMT
Lord Sir Alan Sugar has expressed doubts about brand because the investigation was 'media driven' and, apparently, conducted as a journalistic investigation. I swear to god, you knock that guy back down to zero and he tops out a used car garage. Probably also related to the fact journalists have been sniffing around his tax affairs in recent weeks. Plus he has the demeanour of a man who could easily be a sex offender. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Sept 18, 2023 10:29:22 GMT
I think the law should be changed so that the age of consent is 21, but it’s not a crime if both parties are under that age, or something along those lines. Or maybe just raise the age of consent to 18 full stop.
At 16 all life experience will be from school. Kids that age have no real understanding of real world power dynamics. They don’t have the experience or maturity to know when they’re being manipulated or coerced. It’s just too young to be fair game to adults of all ages.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 18, 2023 10:37:19 GMT
Im looking forward to the resurgence of 'if youre old enough to vote at 16 then why cant I fuck you? Checkmate' takes.
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Post by Dougs on Sept 18, 2023 10:38:02 GMT
Two 16 year olds having sex is one thing, but it shouldn't be allowed when one is someone in their late 20s. That's just noncey.
The woman who was 16 has been on Women's Hour this morning, horrific stories. Definitely grooming.
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Post by grey_matters on Sept 18, 2023 10:41:14 GMT
I think the law should be changed so that the age of consent is 21, but it’s not a crime if both parties are under that age, or something along those lines. Or maybe just raise the age of consent to 18 full stop. At 16 all life experience will be from school. Kids that age have no real understanding of real world power dynamics. They don’t have the experience or maturity to know when they’re being manipulated or coerced. It’s just too young to be fair game to adults of all ages. I genuinely have no idea what's best, I don't like your first suggestion but your last point is the crux of the whole thing. As an aside, I think the voting age should be 16 (these are not connected in any serious way except for responsibility and trust issues) and it feels a bit weird rounding consent age up to 21. Maybe consent age set at 18, like you say, but 16 if partner is less than 20? Still a bit weird, maybe, but better than now. |
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Binky
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Post by Binky on Sept 18, 2023 10:41:42 GMT
I've been subjected to "well why go with him, he was always up front about being a sex addict" lukewarm takes this morning over email. They've gone hand in hand with "well it's not really news" and "We spent ages this morning looking for actual news".
I really need better friends.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 18, 2023 10:41:54 GMT
Im looking forward to the resurgence of 'if youre old enough to vote at 16 then why cant I fuck you? Checkmate' takes. I've already had one "you can join up, fight and die at 16..." Actually, only the first part of that is true. Personally, I think it should be dependent on the people. If they're both under 18, perhaps that's ok, but if one person is older, perhaps the legal age for prospective partners should be 21. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Sept 18, 2023 10:42:20 GMT
Im looking forward to the resurgence of 'if youre old enough to vote at 16 then why cant I fuck you? Checkmate' takes. It is frankly a mostly sound take unfortunately. But I think the uncomfortable solution to that is probably to acknowledge 16 isn’t old enough to vote responsibly, no how much it would fuck the Tories. |
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Post by Dougs on Sept 18, 2023 10:46:11 GMT
My (very woke) niece sent me extracts from her group chat with my brother, his partner and his partners kids. Apparently they all quite like Katie Hopkins and think Tommy Robinson etc are on the right side. Lots about cashless society etc too. It's not a massive surprise, there's a reason I don't talk politics with them but given my niece lives in France and is married to a Tunisian guy, it's disappointing that no attempt is made to conceal their bigotry and racism. Binky |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 10:46:17 GMT
18 but not criminalised if both parties under 18 IMO. Simple. You don’t get to go young teen if you’re an adult then. I personally think even an 18 years getting with a 16 is creepy - the gulf of life experience and the day to day experience between what could be a university fresher and a year 11 is just - eeesh.
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Sept 18, 2023 10:47:35 GMT
yeah best quote I saw on these lines was "the age of consent is 16 because 16 year olds bang eachother, not because it's ok to have a girlfriend in year ten when you're 42"
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 18, 2023 10:48:30 GMT
Its a different debate but it does all come down to consistency. We have various levels of adultification pegged to 16, 17 and 18 and it does feel like we should pick just one and stick to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 10:48:44 GMT
Makes me think back at living on military camps and how squaddies would be chasing after girls from my schools and nobody bat an eyelid. You'd have blokes from their early 20s upto 40 year olds coming to pick their "girlfriends" up from school.
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Post by Dougs on Sept 18, 2023 10:49:18 GMT
We all remember seeing/knowing people who in 4th/5th years were going out with 18/19 year olds (with cars!). Felt wrong even then, despite how normalised it was.
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Post by Dougs on Sept 18, 2023 10:49:58 GMT
yeah best quote I saw on these lines was " the age of consent is 16 because 16 year olds bang eachother, not because it's ok to have a girlfriend in year ten when you're 42" Yes, that was the one I was thinking of too. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Sept 18, 2023 10:50:03 GMT
As an aside, I think the voting age should be 16 (these are not connected in any serious way except for responsibility and trust issues). They’re not directly connected but I think they both boil down to the same thing. Is this person old and responsible enough to have that level of agency in society. I think it’s hard to argue that someone isn’t old enough to choose who they have sex with if they’re old enough to work and vote. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 18, 2023 10:50:16 GMT
I've been subjected to "well why go with him, he was always up front about being a sex addict" lukewarm takes this morning over email. They've gone hand in hand with "well it's not really news" and "We spent ages this morning looking for actual news". I really need better friends. Do you any of your mates have kids at all? |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 18, 2023 10:52:42 GMT
As an aside, I think the voting age should be 16 (these are not connected in any serious way except for responsibility and trust issues). They’re not directly connected but I think they both boil down to the same thing. Is this person old and responsible enough to have that level of agency in society. I think it’s hard to argue that someone isn’t old enough to choose who they have sex with if they’re old enough to work and vote. It's an interesting one. You might say that in both examples there's a danger of impressionable youngsters being talked into things that are not in their best interests. I don't know the answer, though. |
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Binky
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Post by Binky on Sept 18, 2023 10:53:05 GMT
I've been subjected to "well why go with him, he was always up front about being a sex addict" lukewarm takes this morning over email. They've gone hand in hand with "well it's not really news" and "We spent ages this morning looking for actual news". I really need better friends. Do you any of your mates have kids at all? Yes one of them does - but I totally see where you're coming from. That said, they're very much "oh boys will be boys" types. HHNNGGG. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Sept 18, 2023 10:53:16 GMT
It gets to a point (somewhere between 20-30) where age differences don’t prompt accusations of nonceing no matter how big the gap is. So the issue isn’t actually about age gaps. It’s about thinking the younger party is too young to be able to make the decision for themselves. In other words consent at that age doesn’t count. Which means the age of consent is too low.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 18, 2023 10:53:44 GMT
As the parent of a 16 year old girl, I can confirm 16 year old girls are barely mature enough to make their own lunch, much less enter into relationships with 30 year old millionaire pervert comedians.
And, from the other side, I cant think of anything more annoying, jesus christ. The only reason you'd bother is if youre a sex offender.
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Post by clemfandango on Sept 18, 2023 10:54:54 GMT
Meanwhile Bill Wyman is probably just wishing he can die already...
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Binky
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Post by Binky on Sept 18, 2023 10:56:17 GMT
And, from the other side, I cant think of anything more annoying, jesus christ. The only reason you'd bother is if youre a sex offender. THIS has been hugely overlooked. That's a great point. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Sept 18, 2023 10:57:50 GMT
They’re not directly connected but I think they both boil down to the same thing. Is this person old and responsible enough to have that level of agency in society. I think it’s hard to argue that someone isn’t old enough to choose who they have sex with if they’re old enough to work and vote. It's an interesting one. You might say that in both examples there's a danger of impressionable youngsters being talked into things that are not in their best interests. I don't know the answer, though. I think probably better be over protective of children than under. There are nations with an age of consent of 21. There are others with an age of consent of 12. If you make that a scale, we currently sit slightly further towards the 12 end… |
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Post by grey_matters on Sept 18, 2023 11:03:14 GMT
It gets to a point (somewhere between 20-30) where age differences don’t prompt accusations of nonceing no matter how big the gap is. So the issue isn’t actually about age gaps. It’s about thinking the younger party is too young to be able to make the decision for themselves. In other words consent at that age doesn’t count. Which means the age of consent is too low. Yeah, that's fair. The only reason I mentioned one was to cover the cases where there was a 16 and 17 year old involved. But maybe this isn't a thing to enshrine in law, maybe it can be done on a case-by-case basis? No idea there. So long as a 30 year old chasing a 16 year old is not considered right (in law), I'm good to try any suggestion. Edit: except I'm uncomfortable with not allowing a vote until 21. I guess I could get over it for an improvement elsewhere. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 18, 2023 11:07:17 GMT
As the parent of a 16 year old girl, I can confirm 16 year old girls are barely mature enough to make their own lunch, much less enter into relationships with 30 year old millionaire pervert comedians. And, from the other side, I cant think of anything more annoying, jesus christ. The only reason you'd bother is if youre a sex offender. Indeed, as a teacher I can barely stand an hour and a half with some of my kids and despite their protestations about wanting to be treated like an adult the moment you give them the opportunity to make actual decisions or even choose something and they fall apart. But as a I type that that's obviously the appeal for predators, especially the right wing contingent who are ALLLLLLLL about "trad wives". |
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Post by simple on Sept 18, 2023 11:12:20 GMT
I work in higher education and its incredible how young, sheltered and completely lacking in any street smarts or maturity some of them are by the time they get to university even. Makes me think back at living on military camps and how squaddies would be chasing after girls from my schools and nobody bat an eyelid. You'd have blokes from their early 20s upto 40 year olds coming to pick their "girlfriends" up from school. It wasn’t squadies but there always used to be the scummiest looking guys hanging out near the school gates for their 15/16 yr old girlfriends when I was that age. We used to call them paedos and speculate on why if these blokes were as cool as the girls thought, they couldn’t pull any women their own age. Teachers used to have to patrol outside the gates to scare them off by jotting down their numberplates. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 18, 2023 11:15:01 GMT
I mean, its all relative. My dad has nearly 10 years on my step-mum and they do fine. When we were in our early/mid-30s, one of my mates started dating a girl 10 years younger and I did feel a bit bad for her. She had absolutely no frame of reference for a ton of stuff we bollocked on about when we got together and a totally different mindset and attitude to most things which seemed like that would be unbearable in day to day life.
EDIT: That said, I suppose we were quite unique in that the generation down was pretty much raised with the internet and we were not, so our childhoods were wildly different.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 18, 2023 11:18:31 GMT
Swear to god there would be so many cunts dropping dead if I came across a real life death note.
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