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Post by Dougs on Apr 11, 2024 13:59:22 GMT
I've got a (relatively) high-end system, it's not an IMAX but I would wager only really dedicated home cinema enthusiasts have noticeably better sound in their living rooms. It's by no means all, but a fair increasingly modern stuff is fine if played at reference level, but dialogue is far too low if playing at more moderate (not to mention late night neighbour friendly) volumes. Seems far too many people mastering content are doing so in editing suites dialed all the way up and not considering most people won't consume it at anywhere near those volume levels, or with more than two speakers. The same can be said for the picture in a lot of cases. People are mastering for HDR displays more capable than those in peoples homes making night time scenes almost impossible to see even on a top end TV. Those on non-HDR displays with high brightness are left with a terrible experience. On the flip side, stick on a nicely mastered BR (or even DVD) from something made 10 or more years ago and you normally get a lovely picture with perfectly legible audio. Yeah, I've had to turn up the centre speaker to tackle this. It mostly works but not an option for lots of people. |
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Post by Reviewer on Apr 11, 2024 15:24:59 GMT
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 11, 2024 15:27:45 GMT
They're all just getting older  |
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Post by gamingdave on Apr 11, 2024 15:45:21 GMT
Some good bits in the article, but most seem more like excuses for things they (collectively as film makers) are doing wrong, and things they could and should address. Producers should be making sure the crew understand each others roles, and ensuring sound recording isn't compromised. The director is responsible for actors being audible on set. The sound engineer is responsible for getting the mix right. That last part, they can only work with what they have, so if the first two issues aren't resolved there may be less they can do. But really, the director (should) sign-off the finished article, and many are letting things out the door they shouldn't. And streaming being low bit-rate as an excuse is just scrapping the barrel. |
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Post by Reviewer on Apr 11, 2024 15:48:50 GMT
The end of the article does say that. Directors need to get a better technical understanding and sound people need to speak up to the directors.
Not everything has awful sound these days but a lot does, and it does tend to follow the same directors or production teams.
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Post by rhaegyr on Apr 11, 2024 15:56:57 GMT
It's a bit frustrating that I can barely watch a programme or film without having the remote in my hand (or close by) to quickly change volume levels depending on what's happening.
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Post by Reviewer on Apr 11, 2024 15:57:55 GMT
Subtitles on with night mode or equivalent on, or headphones.
Irritating but probably the best it gets in that situation.
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Post by gamingdave on Apr 11, 2024 16:08:14 GMT
It's a bit frustrating that I can barely watch a programme or film without having the remote in my hand (or close by) to quickly change volume levels depending on what's happening. And that negates the argument the sound mixers don't have enough to work with (not saying it isn't a problem for them, but it's their job). Anything I've watched where the dialogue is hard to hear hasn't had distorted voices when turned up, it's just too quiet relative to the rest of the soundmix which is a choice. |
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Post by gamingdave on Apr 11, 2024 16:12:35 GMT
My amp has various ways of helping, with a dedicated dialogue boost plus additional Audyssey settings to compensate for lower listening volumes or to minimise dynamic range. They do help if needed but I don't leave them on all the time as I don't want to lessen the experience when watching something well mastered, and I tend to watch as much if not more older content than new.
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Post by skalpadda on Apr 11, 2024 17:56:28 GMT
Some good bits in the article, but most seem more like excuses for things they (collectively as film makers) are doing wrong, and things they could and should address. Producers should be making sure the crew understand each others roles, and ensuring sound recording isn't compromised. The director is responsible for actors being audible on set. The sound engineer is responsible for getting the mix right. That last part, they can only work with what they have, so if the first two issues aren't resolved there may be less they can do. But really, the director (should) sign-off the finished article, and many are letting things out the door they shouldn't. And streaming being low bit-rate as an excuse is just scrapping the barrel. Yeah, some bits of that really annoyed me. Blaming data compression - data compression is not the same thing at all as what compression means in sound engineering. It doesn't affect dynamic range unless something has gone very wrong and the quality difference is pure placebo. It's possible that some streaming platforms add post processing compression as well - I don't know - but that's a different thing entirely. Having to work with what you've got is rarely true either. ADR exists and it's used constantly. That's not all on the sound engineers as using ADR is up to the director/producer and you have to get actors into the studio, but it's definitely not impossible to get a clean audio take after the fact even if a scene was filmed in difficult conditions. At the end of the day, if the audience can "fix" your mix by keeping their hand on the volume knob you done fucked up the levels. Imagine making these excuses in music production. "Yeah, you can't hear the first violinist but that's because of the conductor's artistic choices, the concert hall was really difficult to mic, and the audio take wasn't that good. The violinist is a young guy and their style is to play very softly, and we couldn't get him in to do a clean take afterwards. Also, it's all your fault for listening to it on a normal stereo setup and not playing the uncompressed 24-bit .wav file on a sound system that costs a year's salary, you peasant." |
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Post by gamingdave on Apr 11, 2024 18:17:30 GMT
... (lots of sensible comments)... At the end of the day, if the audience can "fix" your mix by keeping their hand on the volume knob you done fucked up the levels. Imagine making these excuses in music production. "Yeah, you can't hear the first violinist but that's because of the conductor's artistic choices, the concert hall was really difficult to mic, and the audio take wasn't that good. The violinist is a young guy and their style is to play very softly, and we couldn't get him in to do a clean take afterwards. Also, it's all your fault for listening to it on a normal stereo setup and not playing the uncompressed 24-bit .wav file on a sound system that costs a year's salary, you peasant." The more I think about it, the more it annoys me. Sound mixes are bad because someone along the way didn't do their job properly, and whoever had final say, didn't pull them up on it. I do feel for directors, as a lot of them won't have final say, but there are some piss poor excuses in that article and it does sound like deflection. |
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 11, 2024 21:13:02 GMT
Civil War - at a cinema
Alex Garland's film has certainly got a lot of attention with its rather provocative plot given it's election year. The USA is fractured as the POTUS faces the Western Forces of California & Texas (that pairing really isn't explained) and Florida on its own telling him that maybe dissolving the FBI in his third term (presumably some other Constitutional changes that weren't popular either) wasn't a good idea and they're heading to DC to remove him from office with a bullet.
It's mostly a road trip of two writers and two photographers through Eastern America from NYC to DC via Charlottesville (where the frontline is and they can't go direct) showing how things aren't going so well for America and a lot of the time you really don't know which side they're actually dealing with.
It's very good, certainly a lot more enjoyable than I found "Men" (the ending of that is too much), it's not without flaws and one thing that happens at the end that I obviously won't say what it was was done rather poorly and I understand a lot of the reasoning but I think the direction let that down. I found it quite funny at the point a certain currency is shown to have value compared to the pretty worthless US Dollar too, I'm sure it'll get a laugh in that country.
The final act felt a little too Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (2011) as well, except everyone was using the same equipment.
So very much worth a watch but it's in no way perfect.
Civil War - Use Your Illusion II
It's really great.
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Post by harrypalmer on Apr 11, 2024 22:40:11 GMT
Can’t wait. Love Alex Garland.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 12, 2024 2:16:00 GMT
So very much worth a watch but it's in no way perfect. True of most Garland films. Except Dredd. Dredd is perfect. |
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Post by Vandelay on Apr 12, 2024 7:19:59 GMT
Also love Garland. Yes, his films aren't perfect, but that just makes them more interesting. They always leave you with plenty to think about afterwards.
Wasn't sure about this one when I saw the trailer, as it looked like it was going on a subject that would only be chosen to be provocative. As soon as I saw Garland's name on it though I was going to see it.
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Post by peacemaker on Apr 12, 2024 7:30:57 GMT
Im going tonight. I’m looking forward to it. There aren’t many countries in the world that would be okay with the release of a movie depicting a civil war.
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Post by clemfandango on Apr 12, 2024 15:02:27 GMT
Breakdown - 9/10
Mid 90's still in his peak Kurt Russell plays a middle class American taking a road trip with his wife through the very long roads desert land of America in a nice posh SUV (Grand Cherokee). The car breaks down and then his wife is abducted, nobody in the local small town knows anything, or do they....
Another absolute belter from the 90's that's sadly been forgotten in time, with amazing performances from all the cast members but specifically Russell and J.T. Walsh as the villain. I didn't realise Walsh died in his early 50's, he was a great actor.
Loads of tense thriller moments and some great action scenes, plus a nice left field final third.
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Post by simple on Apr 12, 2024 15:04:30 GMT
Kermode is reassuringly positive about Civil War too which is good. Not that I ever have time for the cinema these days, but it’ll be getting streamed as soon as its available anyway.
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 12, 2024 15:59:49 GMT
One thing Mark says in that review is that he didn't really think it needs to be seen in IMAX and I didn't so can't compare but what I will say is you want to watch it in an environment with a better sound system than your TV's speakers. There's a scene towards the end that is nearly deafening in all you can hear is helicopters and it's great.
As I was walking home hearing a Chinook flying overhead returning to a nearby RAF base felt a bit odd after watching the film.
Not so great, at the start of the film there's a scene that has no sound at all, it makes sense why you can't hear anything, someone a few seats away decided that was when they'd rustle their crisps a bit. Dude, take a break from stuffing yourself!
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Apr 12, 2024 16:06:18 GMT
Civil War - 6/10
It's alright. Garland's most straightforward film that I can remember. It's basically a coming of age road trip movie with a (wafer) thinly-veiled critique of where American society is heading. I was expecting more tbh. It doesn't really go anywhere interesting. There are some menacing set pieces (especially one cameo involving red sunglasses) but by the end of it, I found it a bit crass and superficial.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Apr 12, 2024 16:07:59 GMT
Just reading above, agree that it's worth seeing somewhere with a good sound system. Don't bother with IMAX though.
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Post by peacemaker on Apr 12, 2024 19:55:40 GMT
Civil war
Very disappointed. I didn’t know much about the movie except the one trailer I saw once and it was by Alex garland which I normally love.
Fucking awful use of music through out the whole film which ruined every moment.
It never tells you why there is a war except at the start two people mention that the president had a 3rd term and he disbanded the fbi.
It has some great moments sprinkled throughout but there is too much shit parts. There are maybe six parts of the movie where it uses nearly full songs during scenes and unlike a tarentino movie they are all so jarring.
5/10
I can’t stress enough how bad the choice of music was, completely screwed up most of the important moments and took me completely away from being in the movie.
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Post by elstoof on Apr 12, 2024 20:43:13 GMT
Irish Wish, I’m pretty sure it constitutes a hate crime
6/10
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rawshark
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Post by rawshark on Apr 12, 2024 21:47:35 GMT
Irish Wish, I’m pretty sure it constitutes a hate crime 6/10 I love how you say that and then give it three stars. “Hateful, hateful film. But overall kind of mid” |
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Post by Mr Wonderstuff on Apr 12, 2024 21:49:57 GMT
Civil war Very disappointed. I didn’t know much about the movie except the one trailer I saw once and it was by Alex garland which I normally love. Fucking awful use of music through out the whole film which ruined every moment. It never tells you why there is a war except at the start two people mention that the president had a 3rd term and he disbanded the fbi. It has some great moments sprinkled throughout but there is too much shit parts. There are maybe six parts of the movie where it uses nearly full songs during scenes and unlike a tarentino movie they are all so jarring. 5/10 I can’t stress enough how bad the choice of music was, completely screwed up most of the important moments and took me completely away from being in the movie. I enjoyed it even with the music. Pretty brutal in places. The sound in the latest 15 mins was nerve shredding. Great performances all round. 8/10. |
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Post by dfunked on Apr 13, 2024 7:23:09 GMT
Future Shock! The Story of 2000AD - 7/10
Interesting docco for a longtime fan, but for something visual like comics it was a bit disappointing for it to be 95% talking heads.
Their reaction to the Stalone Dredd film compared to the Urban one was pretty amusing.
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damagedinc
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Post by damagedinc on Apr 13, 2024 8:30:54 GMT
Civil war Very disappointed. I didn’t know much about the movie except the one trailer I saw once and it was by Alex garland which I normally love. Fucking awful use of music through out the whole film which ruined every moment. It never tells you why there is a war except at the start two people mention that the president had a 3rd term and he disbanded the fbi. It has some great moments sprinkled throughout but there is too much shit parts. There are maybe six parts of the movie where it uses nearly full songs during scenes and unlike a tarentino movie they are all so jarring. 5/10 I can’t stress enough how bad the choice of music was, completely screwed up most of the important moments and took me completely away from being in the movie. Intrigued about the music.... as I have really liked their previous work on annihilation and ex machina. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Apr 13, 2024 8:35:28 GMT
The use of Congregation by Low in Devs is one of my favourite bits of TV ever.
(But I am a sucker for that kind of thing. The Jim James bit in The Leftovers also sets me off)
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Post by peacemaker on Apr 13, 2024 8:39:03 GMT
Yeah same. Even the one song I actually knew which was a great old skool hip hop track was such a bad choice for the scene. I was worried right off the bat when the very first scene, which technically is great, was ruined as I was more focused on how annoying the song was.
Several times the movie also does cheap jump scares where it cuts from some chilled out scene to suddenly the next day which starts off with a sudden loud gun shot before probably the next bad song choice.
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Post by peacemaker on Apr 13, 2024 8:40:05 GMT
The use of Congregation by Low in Devs is one of my favourite bits of TV ever. (But I am a sucker for that kind of thing. The Jim Jones bit in The Leftovers also sets me off) Yep. The right choice of music can really elevate a scene to greatness. |
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