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Post by rawshark on Feb 22, 2024 10:13:10 GMT
I think these things are just reminders of how the late 90’s through to early 2010s was an era of raunch and edginess, driven almost entirely by white male power fantasies. Since we lived through it I feel like we’re looking back and scratching our heads and feeling a mix of shame and disbelief that it ever happened. It was basically Woodstock 99, but stretched out for over a decade.
It speaks volumes that Kevin Smith never really got rid of that reputation of being a director for stoners and incels (Red State, probably being the furthest he managed to get away) and is now at his best when making He-Man cartoons.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 22, 2024 10:17:11 GMT
Weirdly, I was thinking about this the other day. That two or three year era in the late 90/early 2000s where all comedy movies were about smoking weed and tits.
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Post by simple on Feb 22, 2024 10:18:32 GMT
pussy obsessed men. Just when I thought Geefe couldn't get more cringe. To be fair, that is a pretty accurate description of the characters in the film and their attitude to women. And probably how they’d describe themselves, Banky certainly.
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Post by simple on Feb 22, 2024 10:21:24 GMT
Banky and Holden are pretty representative of who the films audience would’ve been too which complicates how their attitudes are demonstrated. I mean, its probably representative of the films writer, too (which is one of the reasons it kinda sucks). A lot of it feels like a spiced up diary entry, him just being insecure and intimidated by a woman because he was a fat virgin rather than some elaborate threesome setup. I’d agree with that. He’s definitely matured and taken a look at himself through his daughter’s eyes more recently but at the time he’d certainly be that sort of guy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2024 10:22:56 GMT
The threesome idea does come out of nowhere. I certainly wouldn't see it as a solution to the issue. And user Rum Monkey, I get you don't like my way with words but that was a phrase chosen to represent exactly what the mindset was. I have no idea how old you are but I was the right age to see this film and I can tell you a young lad, surrounded by other young lads, growing up in the late 90s- mid 2000s that was absolutely phrases you would here. In the late 2000s, our guest lecturer at uni was an editor of a lad's mag. That language was pervasive. In front of impressionable young men and, what I am now aware were probably horrified young women. That should be indicative of the world the audience inhabited. If you were genuinely offended, I apologise but I really want to make the point that, over the years, change for a lot of people came from like-minded people whom you respected making statements. Kevin Smith has made some absolutely shite films but it's also really important that someone like him can come out and say "hold up, maybe we need to think about this", such as his comments following Weinstein's reveal. 36 so grew up hearing it, and not offended. Like I said, just came across a bit cringe.
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kal
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Post by kal on Feb 22, 2024 10:42:17 GMT
Appreciate late 90s to late 00s were a horrible time for bloke culture and attitudes. I still think to credit Smith with puncturing that audience and creating allies with his work is a HUGE reach.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 22, 2024 10:46:54 GMT
And some. I think it was reasonably well-intentioned but came from a position of ignorance. And ham-fisted is the end-result.
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Post by kal on Feb 22, 2024 10:49:50 GMT
And some. I think it was reasonably well-intentioned but came from a position of ignorance. And ham-fisted is the end-result. I really don’t buy it was well-intentioned at all. I don’t think it was particularly intentioned in any way on a social level. I think he was just making a film about some stuff he thought would be charming and funny. I don’t think he considered he was making ‘LGBT cinema’ or anything with any social impact whatsoever.
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Post by zisssou on Feb 22, 2024 10:50:36 GMT
I think these things are just reminders of how the late 90’s through to early 2010s was an era of raunch and edginess, driven almost entirely by white male power fantasies. Since we lived through it I feel like we’re looking back and scratching our heads and feeling a mix of shame and disbelief that it ever happened. It was basically Woodstock 99, but stretched out for over a decade. It speaks volumes that Kevin Smith never really got rid of that reputation of being a director for stoners and incels (Red State, probably being the furthest he managed to get away) and is now at his best when making He-Man cartoons. And a lot of those were influenced by the 80s raunchy films. Porky's, Weird Science, Revenge of the Nerds.... Then again we were all teens at some point, and I enjoyed them, but today I must admit they're a difficult watch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2024 10:51:46 GMT
And some. I think it was reasonably well-intentioned but came from a position of ignorance. And ham-fisted is the end-result. I really don’t buy it was well-intentioned at all. I don’t think it was particularly intentioned in any way on a social level. I think he was just making a film about some stuff he thought would be charming and funny. I don’t think he considered he was making ‘LGBT cinema’ or anything with any social impact whatsoever. Yeah, it's very much lol at gay things which was the humour then.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 22, 2024 10:57:19 GMT
Perhaps - maybe well-intentioned is a bit far but I don't think it was deliberately intended to offend.
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Post by simple on Feb 22, 2024 11:10:09 GMT
I think the intended message is people have pasts and you need to grow up and accept that - its the speech Silent Bob gives and is what Holden ultimately realises after proposing the threesome - and he’s picked what he probably considered an extreme version of that.
Plus one that lets him tell loads of jokes about fannies, so that was probably bonus for him I guess.
There are lines in it that hint at something more grown up and to its eventual resolution. But that comes after 100 minutes of fisting, going down jokes and Jason Lee saying the f-word.
Like I say, I don’t think its supposed to be homophobic but its coming from a place of ignorance and he’s having his cake and eating it in getting to say Alyssa is the adult in the room but also lol lesbians.
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Post by zisssou on Feb 22, 2024 11:25:59 GMT
What was the intended message for Long Duk Dong in Sixteen Candles?
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Post by simple on Feb 22, 2024 11:29:32 GMT
I suppose the difficulty with writing semi-autobiographical comedy about characters like Randall, Dante, Holden or Banky is that there is no line between satirising and making fun of that type of guy and literally just being that type of guy. And I suspect consciously or not (probably not) Smith was doing both in the 90s.
And then it just became his ‘thing’ and you get a run of really self-indulgent stuff like J&SB Strike Back which leans into the puerile stoner stuff hard because that’s the audience and persona he’d built for himself.
Then when he tries something different and delivers a perfectly ordinary, functional 2000s romcom in Jersey Girl everyone shat the bed at him for selling out.
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Post by geefe on Feb 22, 2024 11:38:29 GMT
Jersey Girl really wasn't that bad. Just bland.
Holden's issue with Alyssa's past is that she's done all sorts of shit and it brings up his jealousy and insecurity, as Simple points out.
He's struggling because he assumed he would be the first to "straighten" his new girlfriend and hates how he isn't that. Many people really struggle with insecurity around sex and their partner's past experience.
If Alyssa had been straight from the off but played as a nerdy, awkward woman who took a while to go to bed with him, I think that central message of "wtf why am I not the first?" would still be there.
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Post by simple on Feb 22, 2024 11:46:26 GMT
Partner’s sexual history was clearly a major hang-up for him back then because there’s the whole sucking 37 dicks thing in Clerks too.
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Post by geefe on Feb 22, 2024 11:51:57 GMT
Yeah and in both cases people point out how dumb it is. Veronica highlights she's been faithful to him, Randall calls him a knob.
Silent Bob says Holden is a dickhead.
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Feb 22, 2024 11:53:45 GMT
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Post by askew on Feb 22, 2024 12:18:48 GMT
The Iron Claw: 8/10 (Cinema, I had a Tango Ice Blast with all the flavours)
Zac Efron looked uncomfortably swole
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Post by clemfandango on Feb 22, 2024 12:33:40 GMT
Money Train - 4/10 Well the good run has ended… Snipes and Woody are back as foster brothers in this watchable hot garbage. Jennifer Lopez is here too for what it’s worth (why is she dancing in an empty room on her own next to the bar they all hang out in?). The tone is all over the place, Woodys character is a prize bellend throughout. The story involves the police trio pretending to be homeless at the local subway to catch criminals. Woody has a gambling habit. They both fancy Jlo. Snipes gets Jlo. Oh and some borderline psychotic police chief runs the ‘money train’ that’s collects all the gate money on the subway lines. Right at the end Woody try’s to steal it even though he has a heart of gold. Snipes stops him. The end. This is absolute crap, but you can guess that snipes and woody are watchable together so it’s a 4 (should be a two). I feel bad for suggesting it a while back. Felt like they should have taken the sub-plot about The Torch and expanded him into the main villain of the movie, with him robbing the money train as his ultimate goal. (Apparently there was some controversy at the time about Torch inspiring copycat robberies?)
Incidentally, after looking up trivia about it, I learned about the actor who played the psycho-chief getting done for, and later acquitted of, the murder of his second wife (he was her tenth husband) only a few years after that film, then later being found liable for wrongful death in a civil case to the tune of $30 million.
I'm still glad I watched it. Yeah the pyro guy seems like he's set up as the main villain at the start and ends up being a minor sub plot. The film would have worked a lot better if had gone as you have mentioned. The whole thing is tonally all over the place and just feels wrong, including the literal pay off at the end. Never knew that about the psycho police chief, makes sense though as I've never seen him in anything else. He perhaps played the part a bit to well...
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 22, 2024 12:40:45 GMT
I've got the house free on the weekend and it's finally time watch some of my favourites on the new OLED that the other half isn't keen on!
My first choice was Chinatown but I've read the 4K HDR transfer is a bit poo - anyone have experience with it?
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Post by dfunked on Feb 22, 2024 12:46:56 GMT
New TV arriving today too so I'm weighing up what can show off those inky blacks... Alien (3) maybe.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 22, 2024 12:54:05 GMT
Alien looked great. Blade Runner 2049 is an obvious knockout too.
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Post by Blue_Mike on Feb 22, 2024 13:42:35 GMT
Alien looked great. Blade Runner 2049 is an obvious knockout too. I re-watched 2049 last week, and I enjoyed it far more on a second viewing. Looked, and sounded, fantastic.
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Post by geefe on Feb 22, 2024 13:46:13 GMT
It's fucking great. Tied with Arrival as my favourite Denis film.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2024 13:48:18 GMT
I actually like it more than the OG, great film.
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Post by zisssou on Feb 22, 2024 13:48:53 GMT
New TV arriving today too so I'm weighing up what can show off those inky blacks... Alien (3) maybe. 2001 Trust me bruv. 4K. Bish bash bosh.
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Post by JonFE on Feb 22, 2024 13:57:22 GMT
Kenneth Branagh's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (4k Blu-Ray) - 2/5The disk was on sale and I was drunk and sad and I kinda regret buying it but sort of don't. It's produced by Francis Ford Coppola who was for some reason was really going all in on massively overblown gothic blockbusters. It's nowhere near the level of Dracula and everyone agrees it's Branagh's fault. Technically he tries to match Coppola but doesnt have the means or the talent, it's nowhere near as much fun and the pacing is pretty poor. It looks nice enough but nothing really works. God knows why De Niro wanted any part of this, I think only Nic Cage could have done anything with the role. Bonus 0.5 rating for Branagh's abs. TBH, I really love this movie (as well as Coppola's Dracula), if only for De Niro's quote:
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Post by dfunked on Feb 22, 2024 13:59:08 GMT
Watched 2049 recently and I'd say it's definitely tied with the original, which is an all time fave. Visually it's flawless. One of those films you could just pause at any random moment and it's look good as a poster.
Might have to throw it on again now!
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Post by rawshark on Feb 22, 2024 14:02:44 GMT
Seconded on the brilliance of 2049's sound design.
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