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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 24, 2021 20:18:37 GMT
I also mistook those mannerisms and putting one foot on higher ground as some weird display of machismo. Rewatching TNG knowing that Frakes just tried to relieve his hurting back changed the character for me.
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Star Trek
Sept 24, 2021 20:56:39 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 24, 2021 20:56:39 GMT
But in-universe it was probably from shagging
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 21:37:52 GMT
One of the best Riker sit downs is the end of Conundrum when he sits down with Troi and Ro, and he sort of moves sideways into the chair, as if he's tensed for a quick escape
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Star Trek
Sept 24, 2021 21:47:57 GMT
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Post by Leolian'sBro on Sept 24, 2021 21:47:57 GMT
Or halfway through Cause and Effect where he turns Data’s Ops chair for Data to sit down in, but he has his leg up on Data’s console, so his crotch is Right. There.
‘Would you care to join my crotch at your station Mr. Data?’
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Post by simple on Sept 24, 2021 23:40:12 GMT
I still think one of my favourite peak Riker moments is going to a planet where the concept of gender has been forgotten and being so sexy he turns one of the aliens female with desire.
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Deleted
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Sept 24, 2021 23:43:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 23:43:38 GMT
It's hard for Riker to tell whether an android gets just how alpha he is, so an extra close waft is required occasionally to make sure.
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 25, 2021 0:16:43 GMT
I still think one of my favourite peak Riker moments is going to a planet where the concept of gender has been forgotten and being so sexy he turns one of the aliens female with desire. Frakes actually requested that the actor would be male, so that would have been Trek's first male/male kiss. But Frakes was just too progressive for Star Trek.
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Star Trek
Sept 25, 2021 12:20:05 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 25, 2021 12:20:05 GMT
Meanwhile on Enterprise the crew have gone to Risa having literally being told to shag the locals. The chief engineer is dressed as Leisure Suit Larry.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 25, 2021 14:32:56 GMT
I have to say as much as I don't like his character, I don't think Bashir's actor has got the range to play a villain. His performance in The Passenger was... interesting. Should stick to being a creeper
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Post by ToomuchFluffy on Sept 25, 2021 16:55:03 GMT
He was a nice character mostly because of his relationships with other people imho. Especially Garak, but O'Brien did also really need the support.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 17:01:13 GMT
Bashir turns out well. Give him time
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 25, 2021 17:25:37 GMT
Bashir turns out well. Give him time I'm quite sure he's a beloved character but I had the same issue with Franklin in B5 always stroking his patients faces and being weird trying to knock them bandy with his charm/shag them
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 17:37:14 GMT
That's just doctors, they all do that, what's the point otherwise
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 25, 2021 17:39:11 GMT
That's just doctors, they all do that, what's the point otherwise You're a doctor aren't you
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Star Trek
Sept 25, 2021 20:34:37 GMT
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Post by gammonbanter on Sept 25, 2021 20:34:37 GMT
One of the best things about Bashir is that his Dad is an absolute lad! 😆
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Star Trek
Sept 25, 2021 21:03:49 GMT
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Post by crispyxuk on Sept 25, 2021 21:03:49 GMT
Our man bashir is one of my favourite episodes. Bashir is great
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 25, 2021 21:06:04 GMT
At this point I'm just enjoying him being a bit of a plonker
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Star Trek
Sept 25, 2021 21:09:32 GMT
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Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 25, 2021 21:09:32 GMT
I like how Bashir'a character grew. He was a bit of an idealist smug Piers at the start, but he became a bit more grounded as the show progressed.
I do think a a lone character he's not great, but I agree that it's his interactions with Garak and O'Brien that shine.
I kinda wish Andrew Robinson had been allowed to keep playing Garak as bisexually interested in Bashir.
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Star Trek
Sept 25, 2021 21:22:43 GMT
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Post by crispyxuk on Sept 25, 2021 21:22:43 GMT
What? I never saw any of that! Although he was a Taylor Dax had some great stuff about sexuality though so maybe I missed it.
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 26, 2021 0:01:00 GMT
Robinson originally played Garak as gay, he himself said yeah Garak wants to have sex with Bashir. Early on I believe he's never seen showing much interest in any woman but he is delighted in Bashir's company and massages his shoulders and things like that. Legend has it that the DS9 runners were cool with it but higher executives stepped in and told them to tone it down and stop giving him so much time with Bashir. Later he was paired with a young woman (teenager?--err) just to be sure. And with "higher executives", things seem to point at Rick Berman yet again who was a "raging homophobe" according to writer David Gerrold who got his gay TNG episode cancelled (but Berman's argument was "this is going to air at 4pm in some markets and we don't want angry letters from mums"--not sure if the argument of playing it safe is any better, TOS is actually by far the boldest Trek show because it dared to push boundaries). As a sidenote, Dominic Keating claimed he played ENT's Malcolm Reed as gay too, before they made him lusting after T'Pol pretty early on. And truth be told, for a self-proclaimed progressive show Star Trek has a grim track record when it comes to LGBTQ+ representation. Scratch that, a grim track record for any TV show period. It got its first gay couple in fucking 2017, and after a few episodes one of them is killed for shock value--the black one, just to be sure. And in fucking 2017, Star Trek still falls for the Depraved Bisexual™ trope. When DS9 did this a long time ago, I'm already disappointed because I expect better from that show. But in 2017, DIS sets itself up as more progressive and inclusive than in the past, and then it quickly kills its people of colour only to be replaced by white dudes, it kills the gay partner and bisexuality is still reserved to evil mirror universe people. Fucking weak, I call BS on the entire franchise for this. ENT tried a gay/HIV allegory with mind meld AIDS, but that went wrong too. Because the only way to get the allegory for AIDS is by engaging in the allegory for homosexual intercourse, which reeks of the "I can't get AIDS because I only have straight sex" mindset many had in the 80s. Sadly, this was in the early 2000s. Sometimes I shudder at how backwards Star Trek could be. Did I mention Data's line in Nemesis "Ladies and gentlemen and invited transgendered species"? Fuck me. Sorry for rambling.
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 26, 2021 0:12:03 GMT
As for Bashir, I hated that guy first (and I think one writer admitted they didn't know what to do with the character early on) but he really grows over the course of the show into a highly respectable person I actually care about. When an episode doesn't casually assassinate him, that is.
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Lizard
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Star Trek
Sept 26, 2021 6:39:27 GMT
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Post by Lizard on Sept 26, 2021 6:39:27 GMT
I remember reading that Robinson thought of Garak as sexually ambiguous so that when a load of Starfleet newbies turned up on Terok Nor he felt that Garak would naturally gravitate towards the prettiest - Bashir. It does come through in their early interactions before he was asked to tone it down.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 26, 2021 6:47:23 GMT
Is loaf the collective term for Starfleet officers?
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Star Trek
Sept 26, 2021 6:47:34 GMT
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Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 26, 2021 6:47:34 GMT
If you watch Garak and Bashir'a first meeting, especially after knowing that Robinson was playing Garak as sexually interested, it's very hard to miss. Flirtatious, to say the least.
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Star Trek
Sept 26, 2021 7:20:18 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 26, 2021 7:20:18 GMT
Its a shame that in Discovery the formation of the gay partner’s “adoption” of the non-binary character happens almost entirely off screen and the audience are just told to care about it in scenes that feel like the end of an arc we haven’t followed. It could have been one of the most interesting strands in a show that pays too little time to its ensemble.
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nazo
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Post by nazo on Sept 26, 2021 8:09:55 GMT
That's typical Discovery though. They had a robot girl sitting on the Bridge for 2 seasons and the first time we heard anything about her was when they killed her off.
I've always been a bit sceptical of Trek's progressive credentials though. People harp on about the first interracial kiss but it was made clear both participants were unwilling and it was used as a form of torture. Uhuru may be a black woman on the bridge but her job was basically to repeat what Kirk says. Meanwhile, Spock is the constant recipient of racist abuse from his comrades and all the women were basically window dressing. TNG wasn't much better, were there any significant female characters?
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Star Trek
Sept 26, 2021 11:48:29 GMT
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Post by spacein_vader on Sept 26, 2021 11:48:29 GMT
TNG wasn't much better, were there any significant female characters? Not really, they had the opportunity with Yar but screwed it so badly she left. Troi was window dressing and Crusher was OK but only had a bit part.
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myk
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Post by myk on Sept 26, 2021 14:21:57 GMT
Guinan was fairly significant
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nazo
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Sept 26, 2021 14:56:34 GMT
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Post by nazo on Sept 26, 2021 14:56:34 GMT
Guinan was fairly significant Not really, she was only in a handful of episodes.
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 26, 2021 14:57:44 GMT
I've always been a bit sceptical of Trek's progressive credentials though. People harp on about the first interracial kiss but it was made clear both participants were unwilling and it was used as a form of torture. Uhuru may be a black woman on the bridge but her job was basically to repeat what Kirk says. Meanwhile, Spock is the constant recipient of racist abuse from his comrades and all the women were basically window dressing. TNG wasn't much better, were there any significant female characters? I agree that the circumstances of the kiss were unfortunate, but still it wrote TV history. They had to shoot it in a way so you couldn't see their lips to get it past the network's censors (who didn't seem to have issues with same-race kisses), which shows how difficult it was to even get it aired. And Uhura just being there made Martin Luther King convince her to stay on the show because he thought it was important. TV was extremely conservative and restrictive back then, and in light of that I find it pretty amazing how they kept pushing through not-so-hidden political messages about pacifism, the end of the cold war, the Vietnam war (which was escalating at the time), racism. TOS doesn't fare so well in some aspects when watched today, especially in its treatment of women, but in the context of its time it was pretty bold and I think mostly deserves its progressive credentials. Any later show was much less bold in the context of its time, or even behind the times (see my rant about its handling of LGBTQ+). One little example I find interesting: someone (George Takei?) claimed in the TOS days Asian-American actors wanted to be on Star Trek because they wouldn't have to fake an accent and do kung fu. In The Naked Time, Takei was given the choice of having either a katana or a rapier, and he chose the rapier to avoid stereotyping, and so we got fencing Sulu. That was late 60s Trek. In the early 2000s we got Hoshi, a Japanese woman played by a Korean actor, and she's a genius and does aikido because of course she does.
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