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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 9, 2023 9:24:27 GMT
You probably get to meet quite a few famous people in prison these days
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Aug 9, 2023 9:26:47 GMT
On the death penalty thing - not for me. I do prefer the USA system when life very often means “you are never getting out and your life is going to be made absolute hell”. That is far bigger punishment than the easy escape of death. And also keeps open a chance of reversal for the inevitable miscarriages of justice for those poor fuckers.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 9, 2023 9:32:47 GMT
TBH the American system is absolutely busted. It is definitely not something to emulate. It disproportionately affects PoC, the prisons are in terrible condition, they've become a business especially with some prisons using prisoners as essentially slave labour. It's not fit for purpose.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Aug 9, 2023 9:37:29 GMT
TBF the American system is absolutely busted. It is definitely not something to emulate. It disproportionately affects PoC, the prisons are in terrible condition, they've become a business especially with some prisons using prisoners as essentially slave labour. It's not fit for purpose. I hear you for sure. I guess my post was in the context of “someone in my family is murdered what would I want to happen to the cunt that did it?”. And the answer is locked up key thrown away and hellish existence until they die (vs. Death).
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Post by Dougs on Aug 9, 2023 9:37:57 GMT
Was going to say, the US justice system is purely there to ensure corporations make a fuck ton of cash. That's why so many are banged up for so long, especially PoC for very minor offences. It's definitely not one to emulate.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Aug 9, 2023 9:41:23 GMT
Plus the actual carrying out of the death sentence is an absolute shitshow, barely skirting the edges of what is humane, now that no one will sell them the quick, painless lethal injection drugs.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 9, 2023 10:10:41 GMT
I don't think death is an 'easy escape', it's the end of your one and only life. A pretty terrifying prospect. It's interesting to have such a cavalier attitude to life when talking about killers
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Aug 9, 2023 10:27:57 GMT
I don't think death is an 'easy escape', it's the end of your one and only life. A pretty terrifying prospect. It's interesting to have such a cavalier attitude to life when talking about killers For the killer, they are no longer being punished for their crimes, and that is the escape. It’s too easy.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Aug 9, 2023 10:42:56 GMT
An early death is a punishment.
Not to keep going back to the well but I think I'd prefer my aunt to have lived a long life behind bars than for it to have been ended in her early 20s. At least I'd have been able to see her.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Aug 9, 2023 10:45:04 GMT
Frankly, there is no real "punishment" for certain crimes. The person did it. There is never enough when the only thing you want is that person to come back.
But I've said enough on the matter. Coupled with the stuff going on with my dad, I'll not add anything more.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 9, 2023 10:46:36 GMT
I don't think death is an 'easy escape', it's the end of your one and only life. A pretty terrifying prospect. It's interesting to have such a cavalier attitude to life when talking about killers For the killer, they are no longer being punished for their crimes, and that is the escape. It’s too easy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the way in which executions are done currently, I don't think they're an easy way out. They actually seem absolutely harrowing. www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-execution-method-touted-as-more-humane-but-evidence-is-lacking/
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askew
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Post by askew on Aug 9, 2023 11:05:21 GMT
Can't exactly ask a corpse how they found the experience.
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Post by Reviewer on Aug 9, 2023 11:17:07 GMT
Punishment has repeatedly been proven to be worse for society.
It essentially comes down to is prison for punishing people and making victims/society feel they’ve got revenge or is it to discourage and rehabilitate the person so they can be a good member of society.
The American system is about nothing but making money for private companies.
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Post by Whizzo on Aug 9, 2023 11:38:41 GMT
The criminal justice system never makes any mistakes which is why the death penalty is a valid form of punishment.
Just ignore all the times that wrongly convicted people are executed or spend decades imprisoned because that obviously never happens as it's foolproof.
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Post by manfromdelmonte on Aug 9, 2023 12:07:55 GMT
The most compelling argument against the death penalty is that it doesn't work as a deterrent and once people have committed a crime which carries it, they have an existential threat of being caught and nothing to loose from commiting further crimes to avoid detection.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Aug 9, 2023 12:13:28 GMT
The stats back it up. The states in the US that don't have the death penalty have a lower than average murder rate, whereas the states that do have a higher than average murder rate. deathpenaltyinfo.org/
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Aug 9, 2023 13:04:41 GMT
The stats back it up. The states in the US that don't have the death penalty have a lower than average murder rate, whereas the states that do have a higher than average murder rate. deathpenaltyinfo.org/Ummm, well obviously, duh. More people are killed if there IS a death penalty user cubby!
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Aug 9, 2023 13:13:41 GMT
Yes, I think the actual execution part cannot be much fun. However the “punishment” for the crime ends with the death, hence the “no longer being punished”. But again, my context here is only “someone in my family has been murdered, I want them punished, I am very angry and upset about it, would I choose the death penalty / them dead or would I want them to rot in a hellhole for the rest of their natural life”. In that stark choice I want the latter.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 9, 2023 14:17:24 GMT
Best case scenario for me is that the person comes to understand the gravity of what they've done, feels remorse and has to live with that. People make mistakes, grow and change. Some people never will and those ones need to be kept away from society. Beyond that, I'm not invested in their or anyone's suffering
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Aug 9, 2023 14:59:03 GMT
Best case scenario for me is that the person comes to understand the gravity of what they've done, feels remorse and has to live with that. People make mistakes, grow and change. Some people never will and those ones need to be kept away from society. Beyond that, I'm not invested in their or anyone's suffering I just feel that if someone murdered my mother / father / son / daughter,, I would want them to be punished for what they did - and thinking of them being back amongst society enjoying their life would for me be quite unbearable.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Aug 10, 2023 12:59:06 GMT
Have we done Diane Abbott's tweet about migrants fucking off to the bottom of the sea?
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 10, 2023 13:01:20 GMT
Clumsily worded but the pearl clutching over it is 'mojito on a train' level laughable. Her intent should be obvious to all but the most brain broken.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Aug 10, 2023 13:32:59 GMT
What prompted it?
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 10, 2023 13:36:23 GMT
30p Lee saying the people who arrive on small boats should fuck off back to france. She pointed out that these people are so desperate and the journeys are so desperate that some of them had fucked off to the bottom of the sea.
I only saw the tweet because Jonathan Pie was wagging his finger at her, the ranting, tight-shirted centrist dad twat.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 10, 2023 13:39:10 GMT
I saw that, it is as you say terribly worded but it's clearly sarcastic but again with something like Twitter there is absolutely no nuance and if you've already picked a side or you have an idea about someone it will always influence you going forward.
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Post by Vandelay on Aug 10, 2023 14:03:09 GMT
As is often the case with the left-wingers in the Labour Party, I find myself completely agreeing with the point, but still thinking it is fucking stupid thing to say when you are a person in her position.
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Post by Whizzo on Aug 10, 2023 16:48:18 GMT
I'm sure nothing bad can happen by putting someone with TB on the Bibby Stockholm.
Oh and I'm sure not all Tory MPs are corrupt, it's just trickier than ever to find one. It's quite easy to forget having £70K in Shell shares when you're an environment minister I'm sure.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Aug 11, 2023 7:40:58 GMT
Really not convinced that the messaging for junior doctor strike is going to land. I've seen the old Bob the Plumber complaining that doctors earn more than him and are on £60k.
There's a woman on telly doing a really sterling job bringing it back to the hourly wage and explaining that £14 an hour for a doctor, even in first year, is fucking insane.
Media and Tories will absolutely try to fight that messaging, though.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 11, 2023 8:06:57 GMT
I think/hope people who arent carefully selected to be on TV realise that doctors should, in fact, be paid more than a plumber.
Or even someone who works at costa.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Aug 11, 2023 8:11:01 GMT
I love being cut open by someone who works 100 hours a week and earns less than a barista. Comforted by the anaesthesia and knowledge that my hard earned taxpayer money can be spent on Hotel d'Bibby.
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