myk
New Member
Posts: 736
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Post by myk on Jul 21, 2023 8:18:26 GMT
Being in a neighbouring constituency it's been weird to see. Gets slightly depressing when shops you use put up Tory-backing stickers
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 21, 2023 9:15:23 GMT
Going from 52% of the vote in 2019 to hanging on by 495 votes shows that the Tories are back in business!
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senso
New Member
Posts: 124
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Post by senso on Jul 21, 2023 16:00:24 GMT
Strange how not losing Bojo's seat is somehow being touted as a win for the Tories: they have lost 12 seats since the 2019 GE.
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X201
Junior Member
Posts: 4,883
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Post by X201 on Jul 21, 2023 16:21:46 GMT
“Covid-19 messages ‘recovered from Boris Johnson’s old phone’”
Let the sport commence
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Post by Dougs on Jul 21, 2023 16:26:52 GMT
"relevant" messages will be shared. More fun and games to come I think.
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 21, 2023 18:45:24 GMT
Let the WhatsApp messages pile up.
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askew
Full Member
Posts: 6,599
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Post by askew on Jul 21, 2023 19:54:46 GMT
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Post by Danno on Jul 21, 2023 20:01:20 GMT
It's pathetic. Heaven forbid our representatives would actually be somewhat representative instead of 90% old white cunts.
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Post by Dougs on Jul 24, 2023 11:56:16 GMT
Assume we've all seen this? Absolutely disgusting and the response completely inadequate.
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Post by technoish on Jul 24, 2023 13:34:44 GMT
Looks fine to me. Seriously, if she was abusive and didn't show her tickets as requested, of course she's going to be stopped.
I've seen enough London bus drivers be abused by non payers, to know that there is an issue.
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geefe
Full Member
Short for Zangief
Posts: 8,323
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Post by geefe on Jul 24, 2023 13:36:44 GMT
Yeah a statement has been put out that she was aggressive and abusive to the ticket inspector from the off.
Not saying it's not escalated badly but it's not as cut and dry as she was being manhandled by police.
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Post by Dougs on Jul 24, 2023 14:13:18 GMT
I would imagine that this would be viewed very differently by a POC. She wasn't arrested for being abusive towards police officers, it was for fare evasion. There's no way things should have got to that point for fare evasion, especially in front of her kid. I don't know why she didn't produce evidence earlier, could be a number of reasons. Chief of which is probably not wanting anything to do with the Met police.
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nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,459
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Post by nexus6 on Jul 24, 2023 14:46:13 GMT
Don't get your knickers in a twist Dougs - the Met have reviewed the footage and that was just a 'snapshot' of a wider incident. Turns out the body cam footage completely changes things.
sadly, I shall have to add a /s in the style of Reddit
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Post by simple on Jul 24, 2023 16:38:30 GMT
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zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,856
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Post by zephro on Jul 25, 2023 10:06:58 GMT
Maybe it's being a regular London bus user. But generally when people start mouthing off and getting agro with employees just doing their job, inevitably causing delays for everyone else on the bus, my sympathy usually goes to the poor fucker trying to do their job and all the other passengers. Unless you see the inciting incident you can't really judge that video.
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Post by Vandelay on Jul 25, 2023 10:47:38 GMT
The weird thing about the story is that supposedly once things calmed down it was found out that she had paid for a ticket and there shouldn't have been an issue.
Even if the reaction of the police can be excused (I believe the police have said they have the full body cam footage that paints a different picture, but have refused to release it), we still seem to have a situation where a member of the public doesn't trust the authorities enough to cooperate with them.
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nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,459
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Post by nexus6 on Jul 25, 2023 11:18:54 GMT
At no point should fare evasion be a reason to apply handcuffs.
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,959
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Post by Rich on Jul 25, 2023 11:24:02 GMT
Then decriminalise it.
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nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,459
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Post by nexus6 on Jul 25, 2023 11:26:47 GMT
I'm busy this morning but will see what I can do later this avo ok?
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Post by Dougs on Jul 25, 2023 11:30:38 GMT
Something most of us would support I am sure. The problem comes back to how POC view people in authority. I don't know why evidence wasn't produced immediately or why the woman in question was approached in particular (maybe it's me but there seemed to be a question of profiling - I'd have thought everyone would have been asked the question). But either way, it's not great to get that reaction and is rooted in distrust.
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Post by Vandelay on Jul 25, 2023 11:37:06 GMT
At no point should fare evasion be a reason to apply handcuffs. In case that is aimed specifically at me, I should add that my "Even if the reaction of the police can be excused..." doesn't mean I think it should be excused. Dougs has more clearly expressed the point I was making. From what we've seen, this looks appalling.
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,959
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Post by Rich on Jul 25, 2023 11:45:01 GMT
She wasn't approached. This was a joint TFL / police operation at the request of ticket inspectors. Everyone was asked by inspectors to show their ticket. She refused. A pcso asked to see her ticket. She refused. A police officer asked to see her ticket. She refused...
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nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,459
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Post by nexus6 on Jul 25, 2023 11:48:48 GMT
At no point should fare evasion be a reason to apply handcuffs. In case that is aimed specifically at me, I should add that my "Even if the reaction of the police can be excused..." doesn't mean I think it should be excused. Dougs has more clearly expressed the point I was making. From what we've seen, this looks appalling. Not aimed at you no. Just a statement of my own thinking on this. Proportionality is my concern on this one.
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Post by Dougs on Jul 25, 2023 11:55:24 GMT
Yup. Rich that's what I'd assumed. The reaction seems disproportionate but I guess we'll have to see what the IPCC make of it all.
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,959
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Post by Rich on Jul 25, 2023 12:00:55 GMT
If the IOPC find any wrong doing, you'll hear about it in around two years. If they don't it will be quietly dropped and you never will. Spoiler: it's the second option.
This has only been referred to them to appease the mob. Officers have done everything correctly, been told they've done everything correctly and then been thrown to the wolves anyway for the sake of PR.
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Post by technoish on Jul 25, 2023 12:20:30 GMT
Clearly police here have institutional issues... but people make it out like it is as bad as in US. Now I watch a lot of police abuse videos about the US, and it is horrific the kind of abuse they get away with, often legally - including having immunities from all sort of crimes if done while doing their job, unless the powers that be waive them.
This video where somebody is simply detained for refusing to comply with a legal request, and not tased, beat up and shot, would definitely not make the cut.
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nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,459
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Post by nexus6 on Jul 25, 2023 12:26:52 GMT
So unless the woman was tased or beaten up, it's all good then?
It's proportionality. We aren't as bad as the US, so the threshold for outrage should be lower. That should be the splitting up of parent and child while handcuffs are applied for the sake of not showing a valid ticket.
And if it was all done 'by the book' then maybe the book needs looking at.
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,959
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Post by Rich on Jul 25, 2023 14:02:32 GMT
A good explanation of powers involved and why etc.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 25, 2023 14:25:18 GMT
If the police have full bodycam footage that paints a different picture then great... why aren't they releasing it? Why throw the officers to the wolves if they did nothing wrong?
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Post by technoish on Jul 25, 2023 14:50:56 GMT
Different picture of what? There really was the barest of physical intervention on that short clip, and we see officers trying to act calmly. If anything I feel like from a reasonable force stand point could have done more to physically control her, but had judged she wasn't actually a physical threat and so followed guidelines. From a use of force/training perspective, that one officer seemed a bit too focused on closing the handcuffs while not having proper control of her in the first place.
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