dogbot
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Post by dogbot on May 15, 2023 16:00:39 GMT
Anyone who pays tax should get a vote. Its not rocket surgery. Doesn't that immediately exclude the unemployed, long term sick, etc? |
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Rich
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Post by Rich on May 15, 2023 16:04:51 GMT
No. Saying "people who pay tax should get a vote" is not the same as saying "people who don't pay tax should not get a vote."
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on May 15, 2023 16:06:52 GMT
Not to us, perhaps.
Pretty sure I don't trust our current government to look at it that way, though.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on May 15, 2023 16:10:07 GMT
I don't think Starmer is considering a 'service guarantees citizenship' route.
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technoish
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Post by technoish on May 15, 2023 16:12:59 GMT
Aren't 16 year olds considered adults in Scotland?
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on May 15, 2023 16:13:54 GMT
I don't think Starmer is considering a 'service guarantees citizenship' route. If he is, he'll be walking it back, or maybe not, shortly anyway. |
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Post by Whizzo on May 15, 2023 17:31:32 GMT
Someone who rocks up from Australia or another Commonwealth nation and is in the country a short amount of time can vote while someone from other countries and has been here decades can't vote in most elections, it's not exactly fair.
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Post by simple on May 15, 2023 17:47:45 GMT
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Onny
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Post by Onny on May 15, 2023 17:53:32 GMT
Surely surely surely if your argument is “these people are too educated!!” then you need to have a look at yourself. Surely.
Surely.
I mean fucking come on.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on May 15, 2023 17:55:50 GMT
It's bleeding obvious why the Tories don't know want people from the EU voting. In the same way it's obvious why they don't want 16 year olds voting. Democratically, it's obviously right to permit more voters.
Some of the quotes from Jacob Rees Mogg today highlighted again how little they care about national interest. He is quoted as saying that requiring voter ID backfired on the Tories because it meant lots of old people couldn't vote, i.e. their voter base. He's justifying the 'error' now by saying the old system was based on trust and worked just fine. Completely ignoring the fact they originally argued for it on the basis of (apparently) preventing voter fraud. Not so concerned about that now they realise they are net losing votes.
They are so relentlessly self-serving. When Starmer rows back and says things like it will be tricky to fix tuition fees, or some other policy flip as he's done a couple of times lately, I actually believe he thinks it's not in the best interest of the country. The current crop of Tories are just hyper focussed on power without a shred of care for serving with integrity.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 15, 2023 18:11:31 GMT
Tbf, I don't think that's just exclusive to the current crop of Tories.
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 16, 2023 4:16:32 GMT
I agree on voting, but I'm not sure how many other countries do it.
I've been living, working and paying tax here for 15 years and I can't vote in anything. The only way to be able to vote would be to get Japanese Citizenship, which includes giving up British Citizenship.
Taxes = representation seems a lot less common than Citizenship = representation
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sport✅
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notice me senpai
I want to claim my tits
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Post by sport✅ on May 16, 2023 5:19:12 GMT
Would you like to know more?
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X201
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Post by X201 on May 16, 2023 6:09:58 GMT
Well that was a surprise I thought all people donating to political parties were honest and above board. Javad Marandi: Tory donor's link to massive money laundering probe www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61264369 |
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Post by muddyfunster on May 16, 2023 7:25:59 GMT
I agree on voting, but I'm not sure how many other countries do it. I've been living, working and paying tax here for 15 years and I can't vote in anything. The only way to be able to vote would be to get Japanese Citizenship, which includes giving up British Citizenship. Taxes = representation seems a lot less common than Citizenship = representation I think we have to be slightly careful with using taxes alone though in principle I like the idea. If you live in a country and contribute to public coffers seems reasonable to have a vote. Really needs to be tax records + robust residency checks (settled status perhaps). I'd just be nervous we could accidently end up with billionaires or rogue states finding a way to effectively pay for votes if it's not done with care. You could see a scenario where a small constituency could be manipulated otherwise. Ironically it might actually create the circumstances for election fraud. |
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dam
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Post by dam on May 16, 2023 7:36:13 GMT
Aren't 16 year olds considered adults in Scotland? My Dad was ranting about the 16 yr old thing, it must be getting pushed in the far right press. He pointed out that some of his grandchildren around that age are clueless about issues, but I reminded him the Brexit vote was carried by his generation, so he shut up  I think if you've lived somewhere for a certain amount of time, you should get a vote. UK "expats" retaining a UK vote for up to 15 yrs (I think) does my head in. (Just remembered who I'm replying to! Do you do this technoish when you've been overseas? If I've got the right forumite...). |
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 16, 2023 8:10:00 GMT
I think it's a bit less than 15 years, maybe 12? Not sure off the top of my head.
Personally I haven't ever voted in the UK after leaving, because registering was a pain in the butt, and I didn't really have a strong reason to vote. Until Brexit, when I tried to register and wasn't able to.
I do think that I should be able to vote here, as I'm clearly settled and considered a resident for tax purposes. But I'm not sure I should have been eligible to vote immediately on arrival.
It's not going to happen here, mainly because allowing non-japanese people to vote would lead to the apocalypse, but also because they're worried about loads of rich chinese people coming over, buying property and then affecting policy.
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Post by grey_matters on May 16, 2023 8:30:40 GMT
I'm not a citizen, a resident, or a tax payer in the UK but I think I can have a vote if I really want it*.
*pick a constituency and register there
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on May 16, 2023 8:47:37 GMT
Aren't 16 year olds considered adults in Scotland? My Dad was ranting about the 16 yr old thing, it must be getting pushed in the far right press. He pointed out that some of his grandchildren around that age are clueless about issues, but I reminded him the Brexit vote was carried by his generation, so he shut up Exactly. Almost every time I visit my gran, I come away thinking '....and her vote counts the same as mine'. She votes tory because her neighbours have green hair and shouldnt be allowed to have dogs on benefits. She votes tory because you never see a white face at the doctors. Its absolutely impossible for the average 16 year old to be more clueless than a 90 year old pensioner. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 16, 2023 9:22:23 GMT
I was a bit unsure on allowing 16 year old to vote, as a lot of them are pretty clueless. But you make a good point.
Given that the voterId thing was highly skewed in favor of old people, I can't help but feel that any old people who were unable to vote are probably clueless enough that they shouldn't be able to vote. Maybe voterId isn't such a bad idea after all.
Or a very basic quiz at the top of each ballot paper. Like,
Please check the blue box and don't check the red box. [ ] [ ]
Are you alive? [ ]
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Post by Whizzo on May 16, 2023 9:28:29 GMT
A sort of CAPTCHA but to prove someone can think before they vote?
The Tories getting their knickers in a twist about 16/17 year olds won't vote for them just shows they're not interested in appealing to them so that's on them not on the teenagers.
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technoish
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Post by technoish on May 16, 2023 9:46:43 GMT
Aren't 16 year olds considered adults in Scotland? My Dad was ranting about the 16 yr old thing, it must be getting pushed in the far right press. He pointed out that some of his grandchildren around that age are clueless about issues, but I reminded him the Brexit vote was carried by his generation, so he shut up I think if you've lived somewhere for a certain amount of time, you should get a vote. UK "expats" retaining a UK vote for up to 15 yrs (I think) does my head in. (Just remembered who I'm replying to! Do you do this technoish when you've been overseas? If I've got the right forumite...). No longer abroad, just a horrible liberal London metropolitan elite again. (Although now South London instead of North, so I guess that's an improvement?). I didn't bother to vote in the GEs when abroad (it wouldn't have had an impact due to FPTP), but I did in the EU referendum. Fat lot of good that did. On voting if you pay taxes - people seem to equate this with income taxes. But there are others! VAT receipts are 70% of income tax receipts. |
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Post by imamazed on May 16, 2023 10:02:43 GMT
Question to those of you supporting votes at 16: Why do you hate 15 year olds?
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 16, 2023 10:25:28 GMT
They are all Nazis.
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Post by mothercruncher on May 16, 2023 10:46:33 GMT
15 year olds are notorious for wanting to bring back hanging
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Post by mothercruncher on May 16, 2023 10:46:50 GMT
sorry- *out*.
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dam
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Post by dam on May 16, 2023 10:50:56 GMT
In Scotland, the Tories were against giving 16 yr olds the vote in the Referendum and subsequent Scottish elections, but admitted after that it was good for getting young people engaged with politics, and are happy with it.
Although that may be from an Ashcroft poll showing that 60% of that group had voted No. The sample size was 14, but it had the right headline result for them, so...
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Post by simple on May 16, 2023 12:44:20 GMT
Today at NatCon Con: “globalists”
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 16, 2023 12:52:00 GMT
Today at NatCon Con: “globalists” Yes, saw Braverman had that piece of choice language in her speech. The same person who is married to a Jewish person. She should really watch those leopards in case they come for her face. |
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Post by simple on May 16, 2023 12:56:27 GMT
This is today’s actual Express front page  |
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