Reviewer
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 7, 2024 7:22:15 GMT
Corbyn had a win in sight? The Tory majority is huge because of him.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 7, 2024 7:48:41 GMT
Presumably he means in 2017 not 2019.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 7, 2024 7:55:22 GMT
Yes. 2017 was reasonably close but he was up against May. 2019 was borderline landslide for Tories.
Fundamentally, the working class didn't like Corbyn. Which is spectacular for a Labour politician.
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kal
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Post by kal on Feb 7, 2024 8:12:35 GMT
Honestly if you’re not prepared to listen to or believe the vast majority of British Jews, many of who are members of the Labour Party (like myself) that there was a serious problem with antisemitism and Corbyn’s behaviour, and are still netting out at “as far as I could tell there was no problem with antisemitism” despite the countless pieces of evidence, then you’re very clearly part of that particular problem.
The evidence was substantial. But even if it wasn’t (and angain, it really was) ethnic minorities know when someone hates them, they have a far deeper and more nuanced understanding of the codes and clues of how that hatred manifests. So just fucking believe them (and don’t make exceptions for Jews that you wouldn’t make for any other minority).
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 7, 2024 8:16:35 GMT
The manifesto wasn’t the problem, I do agree with getting rid of trident and all that and it has things that I’d still like to see now, it’s just that he was just not a PM in waiting. Local level, I’m sure he’s great. National level, I don’t think many people had faith he could run the actual country.
For me, he never really recovered from basically being a brexiteer. I just couldn’t buy into him after the vote.
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Reviewer
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 7, 2024 8:20:14 GMT
Presumably he means in 2017 not 2019. Good point but him losing by so much in 2019 is a strong indicator of how much the public disliked him once more of his views came out. Not everything in the press about him was accurate but he clearly has issues around antisemitism, the Middle East and Russia. At a minimum he has sympathy for views that are extremely problematic. Some of his policies were good but so are some conservative policies (less so now when they don’t have any). It’s all the other things that are problems. |
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 7, 2024 8:45:27 GMT
Even if you didn't buy into him being antisemitic, that just leaves him being fucking idiot for the amount of times he appeared along side or endorsed antisemites. Like most racists, I expect he didn't consider himself antisemitic and he likely felt his history of fighting against other inequalities meant he couldn't possibly be in the wrong with this one.
His foreign policy in general was an absolute dumpster fire and it likely would have seen Putin rubbing his hands with glee if he simultaneously had Corbyn in no.10 and Trump running the White House. His stance on Brexit as well was terrible and he shouldn't be forgiven for not getting behind remain more strongly. It was a clear sign that his principles would always get in the way of the pragmatic approach.
His premiership would have been a disaster and we likely would have seen a Tory government back in power for another decade soon after. The only hope would have been cooler heads in the background would have actually been in charge (presumably mostly John McDonald), but I suspect from what we have seen of JC's personality he would have insisted on being at the centre of everything.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 7, 2024 8:53:33 GMT
Presumably he means in 2017 not 2019. Good point but him losing by so much in 2019 is a strong indicator of how much the public disliked him once more of his views came out. To be fair, I think the 2019 trouncing was just as much, if not more to do with it being the 'get Brexit done' election so anyone who had strong opinions one way or the other about that also kicked him into touch. He somehow managed to find himself in a position of being, for people like me, the guy who just let it happen while also being someone likely to put the brakes on for brexiteers. |
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Post by Matt A on Feb 7, 2024 11:18:00 GMT
Idealism produces tribalism because there is one solution so you're either for it or against it. Whenever there was dissent from wherever, it produced vitriol.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 7, 2024 11:30:57 GMT
I admit I do feel like Milhouse in the poochie focus group sometimes.
I want a more radical left agenda, I had it and didn’t vote for it. I wanted a grown up at the helm who could lead the country, I got it, I probably won’t vote for it.
You voters don't know what you want! That's why you're voters 'cause you're stupid! Just tell me what's wrong with the freakin' Labour Party!
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Post by Matt A on Feb 7, 2024 11:37:39 GMT
To be fair, the economics that underpins the left fundamentally is higher tax redistribution and to my eyes successive right wing policy has produced the requirement for ever increasing taxes purely because it is failing. I think the right don't have any answers. Trickle down doesn't work and with businesses being able to move production offshore, their relationship with the working class has changed. the rich don't facilitate economic growth or jobs like they have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2024 11:49:14 GMT
I admit I do feel like Milhouse in the poochie focus group sometimes. I want a more radical left agenda, I had it and didn’t vote for it. I wanted a grown up at the helm who could lead the country, I got it, I probably won’t vote for it. You voters don't know what you want! That's why you're voters 'cause you're stupid! Just tell me what's wrong with the freakin' Labour Party! I’m not stupid. I want rid of the conservatives so will vote for Labour. Heavily watered down good or even OK is better than active, deliberate bad and even evil. It’s that simple to me in the upcoming election, whenever it may be. |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 7, 2024 11:58:58 GMT
I admit I do feel like Milhouse in the poochie focus group sometimes. I want a more radical left agenda, I had it and didn’t vote for it. I wanted a grown up at the helm who could lead the country, I got it, I probably won’t vote for it. You voters don't know what you want! That's why you're voters 'cause you're stupid! Just tell me what's wrong with the freakin' Labour Party! Did Nelson make you admit to reeeeally liking the hunky politician? |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 7, 2024 12:00:39 GMT
Jacob Rees-Mogg? For sure.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 7, 2024 12:06:17 GMT
On when the election will be, Guardian Live Blog has mention of Harry Cole saying Sunak is favouring October. Most talk has suspected November or early December, as October would impact the conference season which is a big money spinner. However, Tories have apparently seen a huge amount of donations recently (£16.5 million in last 4 months), so aren't worried about missing out on feeding the coffers (and would be quite happy other parties miss out on the opportunity).
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Post by Danno on Feb 7, 2024 12:08:04 GMT
Brianna Ghey's mother, Esther is in the public gallery in the HoC at PMQs.
Sunak just trotted out his 'Kier won't say what a woman is' line...
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Feb 7, 2024 12:08:44 GMT
jesus fucking christ
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 7, 2024 12:12:28 GMT
Can't wait for him to offer a bet to Starmer about it.
Starmer slightly fumbling his response in shock at what Sunak actually said, fucking hell Sunak is utter trash.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 7, 2024 12:34:31 GMT
He was fuming, good for him. That's really wound me up, too. Fuck that guy, Jesus Christ.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 7, 2024 12:37:18 GMT
Yeah, that was truly shocking moment and Starmer clearly was furious. I would say that is the kind of gaff that should finish a politician, but I suspect those of us that are shocked already hate him and anyone who is still on the Sunak train was laughing along.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 7, 2024 12:39:36 GMT
Unbelievable. You could actually see Starmer's hand shaking holding his notes.
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Reviewer
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 7, 2024 12:42:39 GMT
He’s playing to his audience. It’s not going to change anyone’s views of either of them.
Rishi even makes me wish Teresa May was still in charge.
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Post by puddleduck on Feb 7, 2024 12:44:05 GMT
He’s playing to his audience. It’s not going to change anyone’s views of either of them. Rishi even makes me wish Teresa May was still in charge. The incredible skill of many of the recent Tory leaders, is to make their predecessor seem more desirable than they ever were at the time. |
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 7, 2024 12:44:38 GMT
Even Tom Harwood thought it was a mistake and he's a twat.
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Post by dfunked on Feb 7, 2024 12:44:46 GMT
God, I remember getting annoyed with her because she was so utterly shit at anything Brexit related. Serious bit of monkey paw action going on when I wished she'd fuck off...
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Feb 7, 2024 12:47:58 GMT
Sunak proving once again that there's no rock bottom where this government is concerned.
No depths they won't plumb.
No remark too snide, too scummy, to be trotted out in the Commons.
No amount of smugness too great.
Fuck 'em all.
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Post by elstoof on Feb 7, 2024 12:49:05 GMT
He called her Brianna Grey at the end, hadn’t even bothered to remember the name properly
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Post by Duffking on Feb 7, 2024 12:51:21 GMT
God, what a fucking cunt Sunak is.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 7, 2024 12:53:04 GMT
Generously, that was a pre-canned line and he was just on autopilot but it does show what an absolute dipshit he is.
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Post by grey_matters on Feb 7, 2024 12:55:05 GMT
How does the system hold people acting like cunts to account? Is it just an honour system? A PM is 'not a cunt' by definition, so whatever they say must be acceptable?
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