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Post by stuz359 on Feb 2, 2024 8:07:39 GMT
I don't know, the debt was much larger at the end of the second world war and we managed to create the NHS, embark on a massive house building program and rebuild infrastructure across the country.
What happened?
By using public money to actually invest in the country, that encouraged private sector investment and we grew the economy.
Growth cures debt, cuts don't.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 2, 2024 8:10:18 GMT
Wonder how much of this is down to that dawning realisation after access talks?
Must be a way to communicate that better though. Just plays into the flip flop narrative.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 2, 2024 8:15:44 GMT
It does look a bit like caving in to Sunak's digs, which looks very weak.
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kal
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Post by kal on Feb 2, 2024 8:18:05 GMT
Re: bankers vs footballers thing, I think the notion that both are highly uniquely skilled roles that deserve extraordinary reward is a very false equivalence. There was a whole little group of posho types at my school who’s didn’t get into Eton/Harrow and whose dads all worked in the city, who in turn all went to work in the city and now have seven figure salaries. There was nothing special about of any them, in fact most were average at best academically and all just fell into that career path because of who they were. Maybe they all became geniuses after school, but I’ve always had the distinct impression there’s nothing particularly difficult about that career path and it’s much much more about who you know.
I’m far from a screaming leftie but the banking industry and its relationship with the Conservative Government is extremely insidious, from the bonuses to the bailouts to the donors and a lot more.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 2, 2024 8:46:07 GMT
You can tell the difference in status purely by the fact that bankers don’t earn a sneering Daily Mail front page every time they buy a Ferrari.
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Post by elstoof on Feb 2, 2024 8:56:45 GMT
They probably would if there were more than a handful of black bankers
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 2, 2024 9:01:39 GMT
Sticking a number to the green investment was likely always a bad idea and I suspect Labour are regretting ever having a value assigned to it. It probably makes more sense for them to lead with the actual activities they will undertake, such as the creation of GB Energy and the home insulation plan, which apparently are still happening.
Also, the actual amount in terms attracting people is likely irrelevant. Saying £28 billion sounds flashy, but in reality I think when you start talking in the billions it becomes meaningless to most people. Whether they said they were investing 5 billion or 60 billion, it likely would entice and dissuade the same people.
It isn't a great look though. The green investment was one really positive area you could standby to argue against the idea that Labour don't offer anything. Even if many of the outcomes still exist, it will definitely be tarnished.
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Post by technoish on Feb 2, 2024 9:28:40 GMT
I don't know, the debt was much larger at the end of the second world war and we managed to create the NHS, embark on a massive house building program and rebuild infrastructure across the country. What happened? By using public money to actually invest in the country, that encouraged private sector investment and we grew the economy. Growth cures debt, cuts don't. Well we had rationing for years after WW2 and still a bit of an empire. I don't imagine there'd be much support for either right now! |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 2, 2024 9:32:50 GMT
My company has finally got a political/ research officer and, shock horror, have discovered that a good proportion of our young football players come from less well off/ impoverished backgrounds.
A quick spot check tells me that there aren't many bankers who start life in a £190k flat in East London.
Maybe it's easier to point the finger at the Troy Deeneys of this world because they don't follow the narrative of STAY IN YOUR FUCKING LANE.
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Post by manfromdelmonte on Feb 2, 2024 9:36:04 GMT
I think they're primarily trying to alleviate any concerns financial markets might have. A fall in bond yields and a rise in the value of Sterling would give them room to manoeuvre fiscally, but making hard and fast spending commitments is likely to rob them of that opportunity.
Gotta say it boils my piss that they're being slated for being pragmatic about their comments at the same time that the Brexit media is gaslighting about people knowing Brexit would have a cost, when they were told it would shit unicorns on command.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 2, 2024 9:40:49 GMT
Plug for Garys Economics YouTube channel. You've all probably seen him but working class lad, son of a post man makes a meteoric, almost Hollywood-esque rise to the top in business and becomes so disillusioned he quits to become an equality campaigner. Chuck him a sub.
One of the more interesting things he talks about is the lack of consequences for these mediocre people. Privately educated people who can't hack it in the markets so become economics journalists and are never held to account for their uniformly terrible predictions.
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otto
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Post by otto on Feb 2, 2024 9:57:31 GMT
It boils my piss too - boils my piss that the agenda in this country is set by a borderline insane media, where any type of progressive vision on taking a long term view to tackle long term EXISTENTIAL mother fucking problems has to be denied or downgraded, meanwhile we cater to the most wingnut populist hatewankery. I'm truly getting tired of having to give Labour a pass because they mustn't drop the vase this close to the election. I want them to start taking some actual proper fucking positions that might help the actual you know country.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 2, 2024 10:10:30 GMT
I worked out the other day that one of the reasons I'm so reluctant to vote for them is because Wes Streeting seems like an absolute dickhead. Every time I see him open his mouth it makes me percentage points less likely to vote for them.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 2, 2024 10:14:22 GMT
Genuinely thought he was a Tory first time I heard him speak and I am really not in the "Labour are just red Tories" camp
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 2, 2024 10:16:30 GMT
You're all turning into Owen Jones.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 2, 2024 10:19:51 GMT
You're all turning into Owen Jones. That is the shittest remix of a song |
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kal
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Post by kal on Feb 2, 2024 10:23:19 GMT
It boils my piss too - boils my piss that the agenda in this country is set by a borderline insane media, where any type of progressive vision on taking a long term view to tackle long term EXISTENTIAL mother fucking problems has to be denied or downgraded, meanwhile we cater to the most wingnut populist hatewankery. I'm truly getting tired of having to give Labour a pass because they mustn't drop the vase this close to the election. I want them to start taking some actual proper fucking positions that might help the actual you know country. I mean I know you know this as it’s stating the obvious, but that’s exactly why giving the pass is so important. Getting into power is the only thing that matters right now because that’s the only way they can then start helping the country. |
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otto
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Post by otto on Feb 2, 2024 10:50:27 GMT
Yes, but I'm so tired of (a) giving them that pass and (b) telling everyone else to be patient and give them the pass. I hate that our politics means that they have to be given the pass. I wish I lived in a country where it wasn't electoral suicide to set out a progressive vision.
edit - also, I don't think it will change that much once they're in power. Obviously they will be almost infinitely better than blukip, but I fully expect to be constantly disappointed.
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Post by technoish on Feb 2, 2024 11:22:59 GMT
Yeah and we all want to live in a Star Trek Utopia. Basically, most people are awful, even my closest friends (which I realize only when we do a shared holiday house  |
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otto
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Post by otto on Feb 2, 2024 11:24:33 GMT
Not asking for Star Trek utopia, just a normal European liberal democracy.
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 2, 2024 11:25:50 GMT
It was always daft putting an exact figure on it, it doesn't give you any wiggle room and that pledge was made when a government could borrow money essentially for free and now it certainly can't and it doesn't even account for inflation that was then practically zero as well.
Ah the things a sensible government could have done with free money and fuck all inflation, sounds like a great time for people who aren't cunts to go nuts on capital investment projects...
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Post by Matt A on Feb 2, 2024 11:29:26 GMT
Can you blame them for being reserved and cautious when the country has predominantly voted Tory. I'd put a lot of responsibility for the politics we get served on the population.
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kal
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Post by kal on Feb 2, 2024 11:54:34 GMT
Yes, but I'm so tired of (a) giving them that pass and (b) telling everyone else to be patient and give them the pass. I hate that our politics means that they have to be given the pass. I wish I lived in a country where it wasn't electoral suicide to set out a progressive vision.
edit - also, I don't think it will change that much once they're in power. Obviously they will be almost infinitely better than blukip, but I fully expect to be constantly disappointed.
Once they’re in the next most important thing is staying in for the real longterm, so yes it’s not going to suddenly become a socialist paradise and probably never will. But again I know you know this. New Labour is the blueprint for getting into power and keeping it. Yes Iraq War Centrist Bombers etc, but that aside I would kill for another period of that kind of political progression. |
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Reviewer
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 2, 2024 12:01:08 GMT
And at least under new Labour when taxes went up there felt like something was achieved with the money.
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otto
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Post by otto on Feb 2, 2024 12:03:15 GMT
Not disagreeing, at all. It would be crazy to let the best be the enemy of the good. But I have to vent somewhere.
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Post by technoish on Feb 2, 2024 12:25:32 GMT
Vent away, vent away  |
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Feb 2, 2024 16:41:40 GMT
"Proceeds Of Crime Act"
Haaaaa.
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Post by Chopsen on Feb 2, 2024 19:10:34 GMT
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Post by Chopsen on Feb 2, 2024 19:12:31 GMT
(if you're lazy)
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askew
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Post by askew on Feb 2, 2024 19:13:28 GMT
Remind me to register my holding company on the Isle of Man
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