zephro
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Post by zephro on Jan 31, 2024 19:16:34 GMT
It’s surprisingly efficient way of shutting down most pay objections. I don’t get paid enough We pay in line with the rest of the industry. That bonus is ridiculous We pay in line with the rest of the industry My workplace used some consulting company to benchmark the wages of everyone. The benchmarking completely ignored the experience level of the individual or that 90% of people doing my sort of work are contractors on a lot more. They tried to put me in the same bracket as a grad in the team with 1 year experience and claim I was paid 60% above the industry standard so I had to find some ads with wages on them to get an increase. Told them I was going to apply if they didn’t rethink. They did this to us back at the BBC to justify not giving any pay rises at all for a few years. It was pretty clear they'd benchmarked against "generic software engineer" rather than "engineer at one of the highest traffic engineering projects in the UK". No no you're all paid exactly average, relative to some PHP developer in pick a small town working for a small business. Meanwhile we lost 50% headcount in a single year as the likes of Monzo/Facebook head hunted whole teams. |
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Post by Dougs on Feb 1, 2024 6:51:29 GMT
Oooof. Labour should have a tap in but given they also want to sell it off, they are keeping very quiet.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 1, 2024 7:04:54 GMT
Devil's Advocate mode on:
The pandemic did make things significantly worse though, which is something they still don't seem to have recovered from.
Are 2023 figures affected by strike action?
/ DA mode off!
Be interesting to know if other countries are having problems getting their healthcare back on track post-pandemic.
It's hard to compare the UK with here (Japan) because despite our health system being far worse prepared to deal with something like the pandemic, we never had to deal with the big numbers that the UK did, so things went back to normal almost immediately.
The numbers were clearly getting worse pre-pandemic though.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 1, 2024 7:21:31 GMT
It's more the impact of immigration policies, including Brexit, imo. As well as policies such as limitations placed on posts for newly qualified doctors, meaning they just go elsewhere despite having trained here and want to work in the NHS. Throw in a complete breakdown in social care (cf Brexit/immigration) resulting in no beds and you've got a mess.
The pandemic obviously had an impact but I don't think it can be blamed for the current state.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 1, 2024 7:22:16 GMT
And who is to blame for the UK numbers? It's not like Italy wasn't a massive warning.
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technoish
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Post by technoish on Feb 1, 2024 7:37:18 GMT
Just check Institute for Governments Performance Tracker. It splits analysis to compare public service performance from 2010 to 2020, and then from 2020 to 2023. It's basically mostly worse or much worse from 2010 to 2020, and then same again from 2020 to 2023.
Progress started to stall a few years before pandemic hit and backlogs had already started to build up.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 1, 2024 8:47:18 GMT
Yeah it's not just pandemic. That's an easy excuse for them.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 1, 2024 8:54:31 GMT
Not exclusively, no.
But from the graph in the clip, in 2019 those measures were 3-7 times worse, and then by 2023 they were 10-16 times worse.
The trend was there before, but things clearly went dramatically more wrong in the past 4 years.
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Feb 1, 2024 8:55:33 GMT
Best thing would be to compare to our EU neighbours in terms performance between 2011 and 2023.
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Post by Chopsen on Feb 1, 2024 11:40:23 GMT
Going back a page, I'm obviously in a minority of one here in that I think the Bankers Bonus (tm) issue was always a bit of populist nonsense. Empirically iirc there's evidence that capping them has made no impact on the overly risky behaviour that was driving the concern. As a general principle I think central government making legislation on pay and conditions in such a sector and role specific way is nuts.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 1, 2024 11:42:05 GMT
Tend to agree tbh. What about footballers or other high earners?
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Post by Chopsen on Feb 1, 2024 11:46:56 GMT
On the health sector points: labour currently explicitly have the stance on this as the Tories. Neither party want to engage with a discussion about how demand is beyond capacity, and will only talk in vague hand wavey ways about nebulous "reform".
There are so many staff that can work so many hours that can see so many patients. Demographics, complexity and cost of litigation have made just keeping headcounts the same will create the demand capacity worse.
But oh no. Can't be having conversations about either rationing services or paying more for them. That'll upset the voters.
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Post by Leolian'sBro on Feb 1, 2024 12:20:26 GMT
Tend to agree tbh. What about footballers or other high earners? Football clubs don’t get a taxpayer bailout if they go bust. …do they? |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 1, 2024 12:22:02 GMT
Also football is incredibly socialist as the workers/ producers of the product make the lion's share
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Post by Leolian'sBro on Feb 1, 2024 12:30:53 GMT
I wouldn’t go that far.
I am baffled by why banks haven’t made bonuses long term purely out of self-interest, though. ‘Hey, overperformer, we’ll give you 25% now and 25% over each of the next three years. If you underperform or leave in that time you get nowt. It’s for the good of the economy or to encourage long-term thinking or something. Take it or leave it.’
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 1, 2024 12:41:13 GMT
Hmmmm..... I dunno about that. For every millionaire footballer at a club there are a dozen minimum wage people keeping the ground clean and making the tea. You see it all the time at that lower mid-level. A club starts to struggle because the talent is taking so much out of the business and the first person out of the door is Geoff The Kit Man who has been there 40 years man and boy.
This is also the problem with bankers bonuses. Its not so much that they get paid loads, its that they get paid loads to the detriment of other employees and consumers.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 1, 2024 12:46:39 GMT
Yes but Geoff the Kit Man isn't the main driver of the business' success and failure.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 1, 2024 12:52:15 GMT
That's Kev the team coach driver.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 1, 2024 13:06:36 GMT
This is a strange definition of socialism...
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 1, 2024 13:09:42 GMT
That's Kev the team coach driver. That honestly took me too long |
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technoish
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Post by technoish on Feb 1, 2024 13:31:13 GMT
I wouldn’t go that far. I am baffled by why banks haven’t made bonuses long term purely out of self-interest, though. ‘Hey, overperformer, we’ll give you 25% now and 25% over each of the next three years. If you underperform or leave in that time you get nowt. It’s for the good of the economy or to encourage long-term thinking or something. Take it or leave it.’ Loads are like that though. A lot of it also in shares, so it's collective output. My wife's whole remuneration is based on 3 year average performance, and there is a long term incentive pot which builds up over times but it is all at risk if the company doesn't do well. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 1, 2024 14:06:12 GMT
Yes but Geoff the Kit Man isn't the main driver of the business' success and failure. Without Geoff, the players all turn out in their pants. Nobody should be taking money out of a business to the detriment of other employees |
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Post by Dougs on Feb 1, 2024 14:22:44 GMT
Tend to agree tbh. What about footballers or other high earners? Football clubs don’t get a taxpayer bailout if they go bust. …do they? Some might argue it depends on the club (esp in Spain!)! My point was more about free markets really - you're either for it or against it, not just when it suits politically. |
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askew
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Post by askew on Feb 1, 2024 14:49:51 GMT
Tell me Gunnersaurus’ sacrifice was not in vain?
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 2, 2024 7:37:36 GMT
Still hoping this isn't true, but ditching this plan would mean I'm no longer voting for Labour, merely against Conservatives.
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Post by dfunked on Feb 2, 2024 7:41:54 GMT
Fucking hell, they don't make it easy to vote for them. Between this and having the knives out for the NHS, it's feeling like not being the Tories isn't really enough.
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technoish
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Post by technoish on Feb 2, 2024 7:47:02 GMT
There simply isn't any money left.
Just reversing the current spending assumptions which implies worse cuts than austerity is going to be gazillions.
Tax burdens are already high. Debt repayment costs are significant. Brexit about to have big impact.
We are more fucked than we think.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Feb 2, 2024 7:52:51 GMT
There’s no money left - the Tories are leaving a toxic scorched earth economy.
Getting rid of the figure is a good move as the Tories would constantly beat them with it - “They’ll need to borrow to reach it” or “Labour will tax you for green billions” etc
You can still be fully behind a green economy without putting a specific albatross number on it.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 2, 2024 8:02:48 GMT
It's only an albatross if you let it be. They just needed to have some bollocks and defend it. That amount of committed government investment would have attracted even more in global private investment that the country so desperately needs. There would have been huge infrastructure projects, jobs and importantly a transformation in the country and it's green energy supply. It could have been something that truly was 'world beating'. Now we might get some new wind farms if the nimbys say it's ok.
All they've done l is give the impression that Sunak was right to keep calling it irresponsible and reckless, and give more ammunition to the Tories and right wing rags that Labour can't be trusted with figures.
Expect to hear lots of bleating about flip flops.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 2, 2024 8:05:46 GMT
If they do things like this they really need to hammer home the "because there's no money left and the Tories have screwed the economy" bit.
Dunno the details on this, but it seems to inexpert me that the only way to un-fuck the state of things is to get the economy growing, which probably needs investment.
The whole austerity thing seemed to massively backfire in terms of putting the UK on a more stable economic footing.
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