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Post by Leolian'sBro on Jan 31, 2024 10:08:28 GMT
But, yeah, meritocracy is a weird one in this country. We tell people it exists but maintain a strata of people at the top who are there by birth just to show we still all have our betters. The ‘meritocracy’ in a capitalist society exists only in terms of how much value you can generate for those who own the capital. That’s not a meritocracy at all, that’s the oligarchs convincing you they somehow stand apart from the rest of society, like the rules don’t apply to them because they have so much money. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 31, 2024 10:12:57 GMT
Its why Musk is absolutely convinced he is a god-like genius. If he isn't, he deserves his billions no more than the next guy who wasn't born into an emerald mine.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jan 31, 2024 10:22:31 GMT
Just makes me wanna read Arnie's book now. Is it that good? I do love the man.
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patrick
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Post by patrick on Jan 31, 2024 10:39:55 GMT
Thank fuck Rachel Reeves is standing up for bankers, those in society that are truly struggling.
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Post by rhaegyr on Jan 31, 2024 10:51:27 GMT
Policies like these are an easy win for Labour - don't understand this one at all.
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Post by Dougs on Jan 31, 2024 10:56:30 GMT
Trying to be all things to all men and missing the mark I think.
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patrick
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Post by patrick on Jan 31, 2024 11:02:14 GMT
Barely 3 months after giving the Tories shit for doing the same thing.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jan 31, 2024 11:04:57 GMT
Labour do seem a bit stuck in "We disagree with the Tories doing it, but we won't change it back" mode.
I assume it's still all about not antagonizing the Tory Press.
They do need to pick their battles though, and I'm not sure this one is particularly worth dying for.
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Post by Dougs on Jan 31, 2024 11:06:35 GMT
I see they are panic polling about their position on Israel. Such a mess.
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Post by technoish on Jan 31, 2024 11:08:08 GMT
Not capping bonuses probably means more tax revenue  The ban was for regulatory reasons, not social, imposed by an independent regulator. |
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Post by Vandelay on Jan 31, 2024 11:24:09 GMT
My knee jerk reaction to seeing them say they won't put a cap on bankers' bonuses is one of disappointment verging on disgust. My second more balanced reaction though (albeit one from a point of very limited knowledge), is that surely the issue is not really banks deciding to use a proportion of their obscene profits for large bonuses to people in the top jobs, but the obscene profits themselves. If you capped the banker bonuses, would it really make much of a difference to the eye watering amount that they are raking in?
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 31, 2024 11:24:09 GMT
Just makes me wanna read Arnie's book now. Is it that good? I do love the man. The audiobook is decent. There are no great insights and it’s not very deep but it’s nice to spend a few hours of him talking about things. |
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Post by stuz359 on Jan 31, 2024 11:53:17 GMT
What's interesting is the list of people advising Labour on the bankers bonuses policy:
- Chair of Yorkshire Building society
- Chair of Barclays
- Chair of Legal & General
-Chair of Schroders and Impact Investing institute
- Chief Exec of Amadeus Capital Partners
- Chair of Prudential
Other parties linked to Hedge funds etc..
Not one trade unionist, not even an academic economist.
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Post by Matt A on Jan 31, 2024 11:58:33 GMT
I guess it’s about projecting the perception that they aren’t too left wing. Is the revenue from Bankers bonuses a big earner or is it just an emotive them and us issue?
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X201
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Post by X201 on Jan 31, 2024 12:06:26 GMT
It's also a useful stick to use later.
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Post by stuz359 on Jan 31, 2024 12:08:28 GMT
I remember a stat from the US from 2015 that floored me.
Total paid out in Bankers bonuses (not salaries, just bonuses), $28bn
Total compensation paid out to every minimum wage earner in the US, $14bn.
This is seven years after the crisis.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 31, 2024 12:11:37 GMT
Every year they justify our CEOs bonus by saying 'the pay structure is in line with the rest of the industry' at which point everyone immediately points out that just means the entire industry is fucked.
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 31, 2024 12:35:42 GMT
And it all trickles down. If it goes direct to the poor they’ll just stop working if they can afford electricity.
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Post by technoish on Jan 31, 2024 13:05:02 GMT
I remember a stat from the US from 2015 that floored me. Total paid out in Bankers bonuses (not salaries, just bonuses), $28bn Total compensation paid out to every minimum wage earner in the US, $14bn. This is seven years after the crisis. Not sure this is that meaningful. Seems like in 2015 there were 870,000 people working on hourly minimum wage, which by calc of 50 hours a week for 52 weeks is $16.4bn a year. There are almost 500k working in investment banking in USA today, so the average difference is in multiples not orders of magnitude. Note that bonuses in US banking sector is generally largest part of income. (The investment bankers will be doing fairly far north of 50 hours a week also) |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 31, 2024 13:57:43 GMT
Every year they justify our CEOs bonus by saying 'the pay structure is in line with the rest of the industry' at which point everyone immediately points out that just means the entire industry is fucked. How very Mafia of them. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 31, 2024 14:19:32 GMT
It’s surprisingly efficient way of shutting down most pay objections.
I don’t get paid enough
We pay in line with the rest of the industry.
That bonus is ridiculous
We pay in line with the rest of the industry
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Post by Duffking on Jan 31, 2024 14:20:34 GMT
I'm always a big fan of "no, the regular workers can't have above inflation pay rises because that would cause economic disaster". Like yeah ok mate, what, everyone just has to get poorer forever apart from you? Uhuh.
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 31, 2024 14:23:29 GMT
I remember a stat from the US from 2015 that floored me. Total paid out in Bankers bonuses (not salaries, just bonuses), $28bn Total compensation paid out to every minimum wage earner in the US, $14bn. This is seven years after the crisis. Not sure this is that meaningful. Seems like in 2015 there were 870,000 people working on hourly minimum wage, which by calc of 50 hours a week for 52 weeks is $16.4bn a year. There are almost 500k working in investment banking in USA today, so the average difference is in multiples not orders of magnitude. Note that bonuses in US banking sector is generally largest part of income. (The investment bankers will be doing fairly far north of 50 hours a week also) Average wage for an investment banker in America is $162k (https://www.zippia.com/investment-banker-jobs/demographics/). The minimum wage there is the federal one, states have their own minimum wage which is generally slightly higher but still around $12 an hour. Pretty sure a large number of those workers are doing a lot more than 50 hours, and that’s not all desk jobs. |
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 31, 2024 14:27:27 GMT
It’s surprisingly efficient way of shutting down most pay objections. I don’t get paid enough We pay in line with the rest of the industry. That bonus is ridiculous We pay in line with the rest of the industry My workplace used some consulting company to benchmark the wages of everyone. The benchmarking completely ignored the experience level of the individual or that 90% of people doing my sort of work are contractors on a lot more. They tried to put me in the same bracket as a grad in the team with 1 year experience and claim I was paid 60% above the industry standard so I had to find some ads with wages on them to get an increase. Told them I was going to apply if they didn’t rethink. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 31, 2024 14:43:47 GMT
Im absolutely positive our stats are massaged by 90% of staff being minimum or near minimum wage contact centre type workers who get paid bugger all anywhere so low pay in other roles is basically an anomaly.
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Jan 31, 2024 15:03:08 GMT
you kinda think a truly innovative market leading company wouldn't so blindly follow the herd when it comes to renumeration... |
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Post by technoish on Jan 31, 2024 15:16:42 GMT
Not sure this is that meaningful. Seems like in 2015 there were 870,000 people working on hourly minimum wage, which by calc of 50 hours a week for 52 weeks is $16.4bn a year. There are almost 500k working in investment banking in USA today, so the average difference is in multiples not orders of magnitude. Note that bonuses in US banking sector is generally largest part of income. (The investment bankers will be doing fairly far north of 50 hours a week also) Average wage for an investment banker in America is $162k (https://www.zippia.com/investment-banker-jobs/demographics/). The minimum wage there is the federal one, states have their own minimum wage which is generally slightly higher but still around $12 an hour. Pretty sure a large number of those workers are doing a lot more than 50 hours, and that’s not all desk jobs. Well you can calculate how much they earn then. 870000 people at 12 dollars an hour, for 50 weeks (no paid holidays, but a lot of national holidays), 5 days a week, 60 hours a week is $32bn, which is outrageous as they are getting more than investment bankers bonuses. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 31, 2024 15:24:28 GMT
This is a typo I always make as well. Renumeration is a thing, but it’s not this thing. |
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otto
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Post by otto on Jan 31, 2024 15:47:57 GMT
Every December I look forward to the renumeration of my remuneration.
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 31, 2024 16:08:40 GMT
One of the things I hate the most about Britain (I know it’s many other countries too) is the reverie for the ultra wealthy, especially when nearly all have got there through who their family is. Asking with that is the common persons love of them and hatred of those without much, which usually includes themselves. I struggle to think of a single self made rich person, who at the very minimum didn’t have excellent family connections. They definitely do exist, particularly if you go back to the very early 80s and the whole Thatcherite nouveau riche thing. The Alan Sugars of this world. That period to this day still drives this boomer/early Gen X notion of a meritocracy, because at that point it was somewhat true that you could grow a business from nothing into something huge without a massive helping hand from daddy and his network. |
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