Goban
New Member
Posts: 290
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Post by Goban on Dec 8, 2022 22:43:50 GMT
I thought we'd solved all these 'problems' and were living in utopia.
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Post by Danno on Dec 8, 2022 22:46:23 GMT
We've created a new problem in Rescxism. Stay tuned. We will have a fix toot sweet, toots.
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Goban
New Member
Posts: 290
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Post by Goban on Dec 8, 2022 22:48:57 GMT
I'm soooo glad that FG are here to fix the world
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Dec 8, 2022 22:54:33 GMT
We care a lot.
(dum dum dum)
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Post by Saul1138 on Dec 9, 2022 1:38:56 GMT
Woodpecker from Mars.
De-de-deeehhhhh.
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Post by khanivor on Dec 9, 2022 7:57:52 GMT
We care a lot. (dum dum dum) About the Air Force, navy and space marines
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geefe
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Short for Zangief
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Post by geefe on Dec 9, 2022 8:19:08 GMT
It's a dirty job but someone's got to do it
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Post by mothercruncher on Dec 12, 2022 11:10:50 GMT
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 2,737
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Post by Tuffty on Dec 12, 2022 14:12:26 GMT
Considering that when viewed in the context that the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre is still being inundated with threats by anti-trans activists thanks to JK, this announcement with its flashy PR images etc seems especially cynical. When it does blow up, it's gonna leave vulnerable women behind without support.
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Post by Vandelay on Dec 12, 2022 14:51:29 GMT
Yeah, this does feel cynical. Equally though, I do feel uneasy telling female victims of abuse that they should stop feeling uncomfortable opening up in front of transwomen (or telling a transwoman that is a victim of abuse that they have to go off with male victims*).
It is the one area of the trans debate where it does feel like an actual dialogue really needs to take place that currently just isn't happening and is far from being done in any kind of constructive way.
*Is there even a male equivalent of this kind of support? Trans people are very likely to be victims of abuse and I don't see much about what support they should receive, just what they shouldn't receive.
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Post by mothercruncher on Dec 12, 2022 16:43:21 GMT
I believe the service is needed because of the hoards of trans women who are getting themselves sexually assaulted just so they can then themselves prey on the women they find at the clinics. Something needed to be done.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Dec 12, 2022 17:45:56 GMT
Yes, it's JK Rowling so it's cynical as fuck but it's also a really sticky area. While there are plenty of women who would be absolutely comfortable with sharing a space with trans women, there will be some who aren't and I still believe it's wrong to deny them that space.
Again, this isn't about men "pretending" to be trans to invade a space. This is about comfort at a very vulnerable time and it really does vex me how that can just be flipped offhand by some people.
A definite, JK Rowling-free conversation needs to be had about that.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
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Post by Tuffty on Dec 12, 2022 17:48:22 GMT
Saw this comment.
"If you're upset by this then why can't trans women create their own abuse helpline"
Oh dunno, maybe it's cause any that have existed come under attack by you pricks?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 17:58:58 GMT
Vaguely on topic my mate split up recently with his fiance and she has taken the kid and alledgely being a real bitch, withholding custody etc. (Alleged as I am only getting his story.) He is quite broken at the moment and while he is getting help for his depression that has resulted, but he can't find decent help for the estranged father part.
First time I have really been "what about the men's rights " leaning. He tried to find support and unfortunately has started to fall into the Father's For Justice type crowd. Lots of bitter men in a circle feeding off each other, resulting in them becoming men who you don't want to be near children and ex wives. He is not there yet but I can see more snide comments and "men are the real victims" type stuff.
It is hard as she does have the kids and has gone to another town, which is really really unfair on him. But also there are very good reasons that these sorts of laws are stacked in favour of the women.
Like every other support ever needed by anyone it is sad seeing someone being failed by lack of support. A bit of a decent helping hand and he would probably get through this fine, but I am worried he will fall down a rabbit hole.
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Post by mothercruncher on Dec 12, 2022 18:09:24 GMT
Nope, sorry Geefe- if women are uncomfortable at a vulnerable time *because of their bigotry* then, much then same as if they were having issues with someone’s race at therapy- tough.
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askew
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Post by askew on Dec 12, 2022 22:52:17 GMT
As good a thread as any:
Crikey. Will have to watch the full programme tomorrow.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Dec 13, 2022 1:00:44 GMT
Nope, sorry Geefe- if women are uncomfortable at a vulnerable time *because of their bigotry* then, much then same as if they were having issues with someone’s race at therapy- tough. That's a pretty unfair line to take, as it essentially becomes top trumps in who's having a shitter time and doesn't take into account the nuance. Events like attacks and all various things people (but mostly women) suffer can cause all sorts of triggers/ discomfort that can be both rational and irrational. To say "tough" to this person, when they are in a time of crisis and need, is just wrong. Forcing them to accept something they're uncomfortable with, at that time, does absolutely nobody any favours. Nobody comes out of it happier. As has been shown time and time again, the way to a place of understanding and tolerance is not by forcing it on people but through discussion and education. A few years ago I absolutely would have agreed with JK Rowling and just found it all very weird. This forum - yes, you lot - have provided some thoughtful and interesting discussions. I don't always agreed with it but it's usually done in a way of education and development. Opinions and beliefs change but it is never through saying "tough, deal with it". That only serves to alienate people and entrench their views.
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on Dec 13, 2022 1:20:47 GMT
Nope, sorry Geefe- if women are uncomfortable at a vulnerable time *because of their bigotry* then, much then same as if they were having issues with someone’s race at therapy- tough. This is a pretty heartless take on a complex matter. Unless you've been the victim of abuse/sexual violence. I don't think our forum opinions hold any weight. However suck it up bigot however isn't an answer.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 13, 2022 1:41:30 GMT
Personally I'm wondering whether there's been such an influx of trans people invading rape crisis centres, that bans are even warranted for any reason besides culture war signalling. Maybe there is, but right now it feels a bit like the bear patrol episode of the Simpsons. Right along with the "but what about all the trans athletes" debate.
That being said, I'm not particularly comfortable telling rape survivors what should and should not trigger them. So if this molehill is in fact a mountain for them, I guess I'd support finding alternatives for the trans people to attend.
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Post by Dougs on Dec 13, 2022 6:31:29 GMT
askew. Ooof. That looks a tough watch.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 13, 2022 8:19:41 GMT
As good a thread as any: Crikey. Will have to watch the full programme tomorrow. Sounds very Promising Young Woman
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Post by mothercruncher on Dec 13, 2022 8:55:04 GMT
Nope, sorry Geefe- if women are uncomfortable at a vulnerable time *because of their bigotry* then, much then same as if they were having issues with someone’s race at therapy- tough. That's a pretty unfair line to take, as it essentially becomes top trumps in who's having a shitter time and doesn't take into account the nuance. Events like attacks and all various things people (but mostly women) suffer can cause all sorts of triggers/ discomfort that can be both rational and irrational. To say "tough" to this person, when they are in a time of crisis and need, is just wrong. Forcing them to accept something they're uncomfortable with, at that time, does absolutely nobody any favours. Nobody comes out of it happier. As has been shown time and time again, the way to a place of understanding and tolerance is not by forcing it on people but through discussion and education. A few years ago I absolutely would have agreed with JK Rowling and just found it all very weird. This forum - yes, you lot - have provided some thoughtful and interesting discussions. I don't always agreed with it but it's usually done in a way of education and development. Opinions and beliefs change but it is never through saying "tough, deal with it". That only serves to alienate people and entrench their views. Your general thrust is absolutely correct, but the accommodation you’re giving here- to Rowling and her motives- is not because she doesn’t agree with you. She opened a charity, great- so did Al Capone. She could have partnered with anyone for this, but she chose a hate group. Her, and her nasty cohort are bad faith actors and specifically not looking for any sort of tolerance via discussion. They don’t want understanding, they want to invalidate and “other” people in exactly the same way as people did when they refused to share water fountains, swimming pools and busses with black people 60 plus years ago. Painting trans women accessing a service as a problem does exactly this. As to individuals, of course they deserve help, racist, homophobic or not, whatever- they should still get it. But so should someone who’s not white and CIS and possibly in the same room as the bigots. Yes, my sentence was very reductive, and I don’t even know how therapy might be delivered- group, 1 to 1, blah, but, though this service might do some good, because of what underpins it it will absolutely also do some ill too.
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Post by Vandelay on Dec 13, 2022 9:42:36 GMT
I can't speak for Geefe (although I'm sure he was doing the same), but I can say that my comment was regarding the general debate around women only spaces for rape and abuse victims excluding transwomen, not specifically Rowling's initiative. As you say, I'm sure her and the others are doing this partly to further their anti-trans messaging. That isn't to say that there isn't a conversation that should be had about it (and one that probably shouldn't include Rowling).
Personally, I am likely to fall on the same side as MolarAm, there isn't some influx and this is very much a fringe issue given much more exposure by bad faith actors (such as Rowling). There is still benefit of the groups coming together and actually having open discussions about it though.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Dec 13, 2022 10:16:49 GMT
I would be very reluctant to call a woman in a rape crisis centre/ shelter not wanting to share a room with someone trans a "bigot".
As I stated, that language is reductive and doesn't take into account the many complex issues surrounding sexual assault and rape.
Without even trying I can think of 3 women I know who were raped before the age of 16, by older and physically stronger men. I think it's perfectly understandable that those events will have some pretty complex impacts on what they are and aren't comfortable with. I certainly wouldn't call anyone bigoted, based on that.
Let's consider this - person of one race gets jumped and attacked by person of another race. Are they then bigoted for being uncomfortable around people of that race?
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Post by Zomoniac on Dec 13, 2022 10:23:57 GMT
User geefe is Liam Neeson AICMFP.
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kal
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Post by kal on Dec 13, 2022 11:05:43 GMT
consider this - person of one race gets jumped and attacked by person of another race. Are they then bigoted for being uncomfortable around people of that race? Consider this. Famous rapper gets conned by one Jewish person. Are they then a bigot for hating all Jewish people because of it?
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Dec 13, 2022 11:14:47 GMT
Isn't judging others by what they are, rather than who they are, kind of an important aspect of bigotry?
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Dec 13, 2022 11:16:57 GMT
In the grand scheme of things, I can cut the victims some slack, what with likely being traumatised and all. What I cant forgive is the people capitalising on their misery to own people on twitter.
'I bought and paid for a trans exclusionary womens center. What are you going to do now, cucks?'
Absolutely disgusting.
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kal
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Post by kal on Dec 13, 2022 11:19:19 GMT
Isn't judging others by what they are, rather than who they are, kind of an important aspect of bigotry? Quite. Even making the link between someone jumping you and their race makes you a bigot in the first place, even before you decide to blame all people of that race for it. A degree of empathy is appropriate towards everyone for why they feel what they feel, but excusing bigotry because of something that happened to someone by someone is just wrong.
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Post by clemfandango on Dec 13, 2022 13:23:28 GMT
Vaguely on topic my mate split up recently with his fiance and she has taken the kid and alledgely being a real bitch, withholding custody etc. (Alleged as I am only getting his story.) He is quite broken at the moment and while he is getting help for his depression that has resulted, but he can't find decent help for the estranged father part. First time I have really been "what about the men's rights " leaning. He tried to find support and unfortunately has started to fall into the Father's For Justice type crowd. Lots of bitter men in a circle feeding off each other, resulting in them becoming men who you don't want to be near children and ex wives. He is not there yet but I can see more snide comments and "men are the real victims" type stuff. It is hard as she does have the kids and has gone to another town, which is really really unfair on him. But also there are very good reasons that these sorts of laws are stacked in favour of the women. Like every other support ever needed by anyone it is sad seeing someone being failed by lack of support. A bit of a decent helping hand and he would probably get through this fine, but I am worried he will fall down a rabbit hole. Its a very easy rabbit hole to go down, especially in the US where the odds are unfairly stacked against the man at seemingly every turn. My mate went through a messy divorce, his missus cheated on him, chucked him out, moved the guy in and only let him see the kids on a Saturday night so she could go out and get rat arsed. It took him 3 years to get joint custody. Also my cousin is a female family lawyer and quite a strong feminist and she openly tells us all that the system is shite for good men. However the rabbit hole is really bad and a one way ticket to woman hating and incel territory, the men 'supporting' him online won't help him. Perhaps try and warn him of the pitfalls?
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