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Post by Danno on Nov 30, 2021 21:20:05 GMT
The only one in US politics... Ha yes, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Ta 😎. I follow a bit of the US stuff but when things are so messed up over here I try to limit my news intake a bit in self defence |
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Post by Tonka (🐑,🪤) on Nov 30, 2021 23:44:00 GMT
Is it really easy to kill the filibuster? I thought the only reason it was still around was because it was in the hands of the republicans.
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Post by 😎 on Nov 30, 2021 23:46:56 GMT
They have to convince a couple of Dems to use the nuclear option and that’s it. It’s been done before.
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Post by Tonka (🐑,🪤) on Nov 30, 2021 23:50:37 GMT
An executive order? I thought they were ripped up as soon as the next guy moved in.
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Post by 😎 on Nov 30, 2021 23:55:09 GMT
No, it’s a senate procedure change. It needs a simple majority (50 votes + Kamala) to add new procedure that ignores the filibuster. It’s nothing to do with the executive body.
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Post by 😎 on Nov 30, 2021 23:56:57 GMT
As for removing it setting bad precedent - you can absolutely guarantee that if the GOP gets in with a slim majority they’d abolish it day one. It’s going to go, it’s just a matter of which party is going to do it and benefit from it to pass legislation.
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Post by Danno on Nov 30, 2021 23:58:07 GMT
Why the fuck is this not happening
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Post by 😎 on Dec 1, 2021 0:01:06 GMT
Because they’re spineless.
The dirty secret of the Senate is that, aside from a handful of progressives and extreme right wingers, they all get along and act up their aggressions and divisions. One them (might have been Cruz) is on record saying it’s basically like WWE kayfabe.
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Post by Danno on Dec 1, 2021 0:12:52 GMT
Because they’re spineless. The dirty secret of the Senate is that, aside from a handful of progressives and extreme right wingers, they all get along and act up their aggressions and divisions. One them (might have been Cruz) is on record saying it’s basically like WWE kayfabe. I was under the (probably misinformed) impression that a few progressives could force the issue now |
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Post by 😎 on Dec 1, 2021 0:16:39 GMT
They need all the Dems on board for it and the moderates are vaguely wavering and non-committal, but no one with weight is willing to stand by it. Biden has basically gone “I’m open to it probably” but hasn’t been forceful. They’re basically scared of the political backlash, even though their polls are in the toilet anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 0:48:30 GMT
Yeah the problem is Biden has done very little to force the filibuster issue. Even his rousing speeches where he blasts voter suppression laws and warns of a return to a Jim Crow era will carefully avoid all mention of nuking the filibuster, the one fucking thing that would get voting rights legislation passed.
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Post by Tonka (🐑,🪤) on Dec 1, 2021 7:44:42 GMT
I used to think the filibuster was weird, and thinking they should get rid of it. Then Cruz read Green Eggs and Ham and every time I hear or see the word filibuster I'm reminded of his smug face.
I hate it so much now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 7:54:15 GMT
I just think of the sketch on Tiny Toons, where Babs fills Buster with a bike pump.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 1, 2021 9:18:13 GMT
The problem with the filibuster is that that classic James Stewart movie made it seem really cool and a bastion of democracy.
I can't really get that thought out of my mind.
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Post by 😎 on Dec 1, 2021 10:05:05 GMT
The whole endless speech to delay a vote isn’t really what the filibuster is. The filibuster is that you need 60 senators to agree to end debate and move to a vote - if you don’t have 60 senators, you can’t end debate and thus can’t vote on legislation (voting itself only requires a simple majority, 51). What Cruz did with his marathon speech was partly protest, partly delaying tactics for a time sensitive bill (funding the government to avoid a shutdown), but it was mostly meaningless as a vote for what he was protesting was already scheduled.
It’s technically true that long speeches can prevent closing debate due to the rules of the house and senate, but it’s not the modern day filibuster as the slim majorities make such acts meaningless.
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Post by skalpadda on Dec 1, 2021 13:20:28 GMT
They need all the Dems on board for it and the moderates are vaguely wavering and non-committal, but no one with weight is willing to stand by it. I haven't been following it particularly closely, but I thought some of them actively opposed killing off the filibuster. There also doesn't seem to be any solid way of whipping senators into line, which is a bit problem when you only have a 1 vote majority. |
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lexw
New Member
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Post by lexw on Dec 1, 2021 16:27:24 GMT
They need all the Dems on board for it and the moderates are vaguely wavering and non-committal, but no one with weight is willing to stand by it. I haven't been following it particularly closely, but I thought some of them actively opposed killing off the filibuster. There also doesn't seem to be any solid way of whipping senators into line, which is a bit problem when you only have a 1 vote majority. Yes. Kyrstyn Synyma or w/e is actively and vocally opposed to ending the filibuster for entirely vague and unclear reasons. She's definitely opposed, but really bad at any kind of cogent or rational explanation of why. |
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Post by Sarfrin on Dec 1, 2021 18:00:47 GMT
I imagine "I might need to use it in service of my corporate donors" wouldn't go down well.
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Post by 😎 on Dec 1, 2021 19:39:22 GMT
Sinema has wavered on it in the past, she's on record way back in 2010 of calling for it to be abolished, but yeah, it's pretty clear she's protecting self-interest right now. I think if there were a forceful push from leaders to actually get it done she could be swayed, along with Joe Manchin.
At the very least they could modify it so that it only removes the filibuster specifically for voting rights legislation if they're really worried about the full nuclear option - that's what the GOP did for getting judges appointed, so it's not without precedent. Either way, doing basically nothing but shrugging and going "OH WELL WASHINGTON GRIDLOCK EH?" is insanity.
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Post by Sarfrin on Dec 1, 2021 19:56:59 GMT
My uncle posted on FB complaining about the 'woke BBC' because a Countryfile presenter said they were walking past a manured field and they put an explanation of what manure is on screen.
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nexus6
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Post by nexus6 on Dec 1, 2021 20:09:28 GMT
What a load of shit!
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Post by cowsmakenoise on Dec 1, 2021 20:15:18 GMT
My uncle posted on FB complaining about the 'woke BBC' because a Countryfile presenter said they were walking past a manured field and they put an explanation of what manure is on screen. Was the explanation “everything your uncle* posts on Facebook”? *select uncle/gran/mate from school/other as appropriate. |
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Post by waffleaber on Dec 1, 2021 20:22:46 GMT
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Post by Sarfrin on Dec 1, 2021 20:36:29 GMT
To be fair he had the name of the programme right, so that was me. He's now annoyed because I asked what he thought woke meant.
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Post by waffleaber on Dec 1, 2021 20:58:38 GMT
To be fair he had the name of the programme right, so that was me. He's now annoyed because I asked what he thought woke meant. It feels like he could have made a point about the BBC dumbing down (even a pun about how the BBC think people don't know shit these days, come on it writes itself!) but he had to shoe horn woke in there as it's the new buzzword. |
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Post by Sarfrin on Dec 1, 2021 21:00:36 GMT
To be fair he had the name of the programme right, so that was me. He's now annoyed because I asked what he thought woke meant. It feels like he could have made a point about the BBC dumbing down (even a pun about how the BBC think people don't know shit these days, come on it writes itself!) but he had to shoe horn woke in there as it's the new buzzword. I think woke now means 'anything modern that annoys me' to anyone vaguely right wing over 60. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 1, 2021 21:11:45 GMT
Poor guys.
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,869
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 1, 2021 22:14:44 GMT
It's political correctness gone mad!
(remember when people still talked about that)
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Post by Danno on Dec 1, 2021 22:44:13 GMT
It's political correctness gone mad! (remember when people still talked about that) They basically nicked 'woke' for an abbreviation |
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,869
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 1, 2021 23:18:05 GMT
I don't know intentional it is, but it's pretty interesting how terms like this change, to the point where their real meaning (insofar as there is one) barely matters at all.
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