The Woke thread AKA Liberal Kaynesplaining

It's a tricky one, but if you don't see any examples of it ever being an issue, that may well be because you're not from a marginalised social group*?

Although, it's probably worth noting that much of the kvetching about it comes from people offended on behalf of cultures that they don't actually have any relation to. Nevertheless, it is a thing and it can be debilitating for people to see something that's part of their identity used by someone who isn't of that culture, especially when you think about it in relation to power imbalance.

Good article about it and not overreacting to it:

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/the-trouble-with-cultural-appropriation

*personally, I don't feel that I am, either, just out of interest

I don't disagree. But there's a line that can be crossed somewhere, it's about understanding the culture you're taking things from. And how much you're appropriating. I thing it's foolish to call out somebody because of their hairstyle alone, but at some point it becomes a bit icky.

Like I've no issues with white folks having dreadlocks. But white folks having dreadlocks and wearing a Rastafari coloured tam and speaking in pattois, despite being born on Shoreditch, and having no clue about the Rastafarian culture or religion? Yeah, that would cross a line.

But even then, it might well turn out the Trustafarian actually has spent a lot of time invested in the culture, and does actually practice the religion etc. So appearances can be decieving.

I will say, I've met people who think cultural appropriation is bs, but then get angry when a tween wears a Nirvana or Guns and Roses t-shirt without ever listening to the bands. The irony amuses me.

I can see why someone might be irked by some specific things, although it also seems to me that those specific things could easily be avoided by anyone with even just some cursory research on the matter.

And as the article also states, it seems that wanting to fire people over it is basically an internet overreaction (I also want to say, an American internet overreaction, because it seems far less in other places).

It's always weird to me when people get offended on the behalf of other people. I can understand amplifying and all, but the constant outrage over the smallest incidents gets just tired after a while. Then again, who knows, maybe there is no other way to enact change.

Has anyone here actually watched the whole thing? I haven't so I don't know whether the protests are justified or not. Some of the comments beneath news articles seem to think there's a pay off at the end of the gig that provides context and so on. But, I'm not sure I can be arsed to sit through an hour of Chapelle stand up.

Lists like that are always hopelessly parochial, constructed by people who are very young, very online and very ignorant, or by people with bad intentions - IE right-wing types trying to make stuff seem ridiculous. Or the former make them and the latter popularize them.

In the end only the court of public opinion matters. Hella isn't going anywhere. Ain't is as you say used in many English dialects, including extremely posh British ones. Again, it's not going anywhere, because lists like this get no traction outside people trying to mock them. You can absolutely talk about it btw but try to avoid being wrong through ignorance. I mean, I read an article claiming the idea of routinely calling older women not related to you "Aunt" or "Auntie" was a Black thing only, which is obviously ludicrous,and particularly so for me where in Scotland I had a half dozen dear Aunties who weren't related to me. Obviously the article author was a bit ignorant/young, but in the comments we had a good discussion about it, and whilst US Black Auntie culture has some stuff specific to it, the basic concept appears in a number of cultures (just less so in white US cultures).

Cultural appropriation is basically neutral. The idea that it's negative is because it can become negative. The classic example is when a white artist takes a style or whatever from a culture with little power and uses it in a way that doesn't help that culture, merely that artist, often in fact devaluing the style or whatever in the process. Native Americans, for example, suffer a ton from this. It's particularly bad where there is or was an imperial/colonial relationship between the cultures. But a lot of appropriation is basically harmless, like between Japan and the West. Japan appropriates Western stuff incredibly aggressively, but equally the West appropriates Japanese stuff a ton, and because all the cultures involved are powerful, there's no real harm.

There are claims of harmful cultural appropriation which ring a bit hollow, particularly those involving India and China, both cultural juggernauts with vast audiences and culture industries, being "appropriated from". Yes both have been subject to harmful colonialism and so on, but the idea that some Western film being Bollywood influenced (for example) is harmful seems far-fetched.

So with cultural appropriation the key is to look at the power relationship. Cultures with little influence and little platform are much more likely be harmfully appropriated from.

The protests aren't really about the special per se, that's a bit of a misapprehension the media is pushing because it's convenient and easy to understand.

If the special had happened alone, there'd have been some internal discussions at Netflix and some annoyance on Twitter but little else.

The issue is the CEO of Netflix decided to moronically and totally unnecessarily (and he now admits he fucked up) publish two memos giving his fatuous and ill-considered opinion on the subject, and also suspended three staff who disagreed on very sketchy grounds (now unsuspended). This turned an internal discussion public and also made a lot of Netflix staff (trans and otherwise) feel like the CEO didn't understand the issue or give a fuck about them (the former even the CEO seems to admit was correct).

The key demand of the protests is that Netflix give equal funding to trans creators and material as they do transphobic stuff. Something which is clearly not happening yet. It's not a particularly wild demand, I'd suggest. That's the main thing the walkout was about - better and more equal representation.

Not sure why it's hard for some people to just not do blackface. I mean, fucks sake, we knew it was fucked in the 1970s, and it's been obviously gross since the 1980s at the latest. There are literally infinite costumes and characters you could do which aren't blackface. Why find the one that is?

I will cut people from rural or racist communities, and who are pretty young a break on this for sure, but most of the people doing blackface costumes and stuff post, say, 1990, know it's wrong/gross/racist and are doing it precisely because of that. Like, I knew a couple of people who did it at uni (not friends, acquaintances), and one was just genuinely ignorant and clearly felt bad about it later. The other was a pure attention-seeker who absolutely knew what he was doing and was smug about it. This was in 1998.

It would be fine to blackface as Malcolm X at Halloween as the educational and thought provoking nature of the costume would outweigh the insensitivity.

I still don't understand how the Papa Lazarou character is troubling. He's a scary vaudeville pastiche. He's not "bloke in blackface" from the 70s.

But then I am a massive fan of The League so what do I know

Not sure if I should post this in World Politics or here, but here will do as is more culture war BS:

Daily Wire moron says the US should invade Australia, gets told to fuck off by actual Australians

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/rightwing-pundit-candace-owens-suggests-us-invade-australia-to-free-an-oppressed-people

Also the reason why nobody has invaded us is that it's too much effort for a country that is mostly uninhabitable wasteland.

She's really going all out on the projection now that she has nothing to remain the centre of the conversation anymore. It's very sad.

It's a nightmare when the tide goes out between Australia and New Zealand.

We've had to employ hundreds of sweepers and specialists to keep all the toads, spiders and snakes out when they try to cross.

NZ EXTREME COVID MEASURES SHOCKER