lexw
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Post by lexw on Oct 21, 2021 1:57:05 GMT
There's an interesting discussion about the term "Latinx" there. Broadly speaking, the term has been rejected by Hispanics, leading to some accusations that the term is cultural whitewashing. The trouble is that's speaking extremely broadly and completely ignoring divisions of age and the fact that a lot of Hispanic people in the US are deeply culturally conservative, and that to get "broadly rejected" you have to be including a bunch of ageing people and conservatives who are 100% going to reject anything they perceive as novel or, god help us, "liberal". And so far everything I've read suggesting it's "whitewashing" has come from - you guessed it - white people. Re xim/xer etc. the issue is precisely that, until pretty recently (like, literally last year or last two years recently), there was a huge bunch of people desperately pretending that they/them were not singular (I mean what the fuck), and/or moaning endlessly about how "confused" they were. Hence people attempting to develop pronouns which these people could no longer pretend weren't singular. Of course the same people started going "Oh these are so confusing!" (which really raises some questions re: their basic intelligence level but w/e), but we seem to have reached a point where pretending they/them isn't possible to use as singular not just makes you look like a moron, so that works. I read an interesting term recently - SWANA - Southwest Asia and North Africa, which was initially confusing until I realized it was just an update on MENA - Middle East and North Africa, replacing the "Middle East" which makes everything relative to where Europe is with a more accurate if initially vexing descriptor. |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Oct 21, 2021 2:09:47 GMT
Tbh the number of acronyms and pronouns and all the rest of it, is getting a bit confusing. And I say this as someone broadly sympathetic to inclusiveness (with the acronyms) and calling people by the thing that they want to be called.
I don't really know what the solution is, because it feels like nobody can agree on (for example) what should be included in the LGBTIQ moniker, or race-based ones like BIPOC. Which is why we've got all these variations. It's manageable at the moment, but has the potential to go into "Judean People's Front?! We're the People's Front of Judea!" territory.
I guess it's fine as long as people aren't too dogmatic about it, being forgiving of people if they make pronoun mistakes, etc.
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Post by 😎 on Oct 21, 2021 2:22:41 GMT
Ehhh, I disagree for the most part about the elderly conservative aspect. I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with a person identifying themselves as latinx, but, anecdotal evidence ahoy here, most of the progressive Hispanics I know don’t like the term and use the term I’ve used twice myself for gender neutral, even if it’s not quite as geographically accurate. There’s also the term Latine (sometimes typed latin@), which has the benefit of being a) closer to being grammatically correct in Spanish, and b) doesn’t rely on a letter that’s traditionally awkward to pronounce in English for Spanish speakers. Latinx could be “lah-teen-ecks” or lah-teen-hee” or “lah-teen-ehkees”. Or if you’re really intent on anglicizing the shit out of it, “lah-tinks”.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 21, 2021 8:04:29 GMT
As expected, there's now a full blown culture war around Chappelle's special. Netflix employees walked out in form of protest over it which leads to the usual rhetoric of "destroying free speech" "its gone too far" etc. An incident was picked up at the event which these grifters latched on to in which a reactionary showed up at the event with a sign saying "Dave is funny", to which I think maybe 2 people challenged him over and took his sign away. But from people talking about it you would think it was a full on riot.
Personally the reaction to walk out, or even to the special isn't warranted because it just wasn't worth it. Not funny or edgy.
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Oct 21, 2021 8:56:23 GMT
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Post by Zomoniac on Oct 21, 2021 8:59:19 GMT
“Wow Stephanie, your eyeliner is perf like so perf like omg STEPHANIE!”
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Post by Danno on Oct 21, 2021 8:59:28 GMT
So now I can't say petty.
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Post by Zomoniac on Oct 21, 2021 9:05:07 GMT
Apparently Hella is black. I always thought that was the most white Californian thing anyone could say.
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Oct 21, 2021 9:09:15 GMT
No more getting hyped for new games unless you're black either.
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Post by dfunked on Oct 21, 2021 9:13:58 GMT
People 👏 should 👏 be 👏 cancelled 👏 for 👏 doing 👏 this 👏 regardless 👏
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Oct 21, 2021 9:16:59 GMT
People 👏 should 👏 be 👏 cancelled 👏 for 👏 doing 👏 this 👏 regardless 👏 Ban pls. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 21, 2021 9:33:56 GMT
I find the idea of cultural appropriation fascinating.
It can be a genuine issue but I also think it's frequently overblown.
In the case of that word list, I think it's the latter. Certainly some of those words and phrases I wouldn't even connect to bring exclusively black. "Ain't" for example is a contraction used by quite a few dialects.
Equally "as fuck"
Of course as a white bloke maybe I shouldn't say which of those are of black origin, but all I can think is get tae fuck.
Now I'm offending the Scotch people too. Apologies.
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Post by mothercruncher on Oct 21, 2021 9:42:02 GMT
Och, it’s nae bother, hen.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 21, 2021 9:43:02 GMT
Of course as a white bloke maybe I shouldn't say which of those are of black origin, but all I can think is get tae fuck. Now I'm offending the Scotch people too. Apologies. It's "Scottish."
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Post by suicida on Oct 21, 2021 9:43:09 GMT
Language evolves. English is littered with words and phrases that have come from other languages, is that cultural appropriation, or just a thing that naturally happens when people from different cultures mix together?
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cubby
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doesn't get subtext
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Post by cubby on Oct 21, 2021 9:48:28 GMT
So now I can't say petty. Yes, please say "I Like listening to Free Fallin' by Tom Spiteful" |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Oct 21, 2021 9:53:20 GMT
I thought it was a typo when I read Latinx once. Now it's a real thing?
But then I am also just happy leaving it at LGBT and I'm still not entire sure about non-binary language. A friend has asked me to start calling her by a man's name and I just...I don't get it at all. She's not transitioning or anything. I mean I'll do it but I don't particularly like or understand it.
But hey, I'm a middle class white male with a conservative upbringing.
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Post by Danno on Oct 21, 2021 9:53:39 GMT
Mmmmmm deep fried heroin. Where's the Dinner thread.
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Post by Nanocrystal on Oct 21, 2021 10:03:09 GMT
So that's why the AF was removed from the thread title? |
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Oct 21, 2021 10:08:03 GMT
So what do you fancy doing tonight?
I don't know, Netflix and calm down?
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Post by Danno on Oct 21, 2021 10:19:27 GMT
Can we still say Netflix or is it 'premium streaming service' now
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Post by simple on Oct 21, 2021 10:24:02 GMT
Wasn’t “they” singular before becoming plural anyway?
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JYM60
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Post by JYM60 on Oct 21, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
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Post by KinkyMong on Oct 21, 2021 10:24:58 GMT
It's political correctness gone unbelievably.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Oct 21, 2021 10:32:24 GMT
I find the idea of cultural appropriation fascinating. It can be a genuine issue but I also think it's frequently overblown. In the case of that word list, I think it's the latter. Certainly some of those words and phrases I wouldn't even connect to bring exclusively black. "Ain't" for example is a contraction used by quite a few dialects. Equally "as fuck" Of course as a white bloke maybe I shouldn't say which of those are of black origin, but all I can think is get tae fuck. Now I'm offending the Scotch people too. Apologies. People are weird, they want a globalized, multicultural world with no barriers, but they also don't want any cultural appropriation. Whatever that is. As a matter of fact, I'll open a can of worms here and say that I can't think of a single example where cultural appropriation could be a genuine issue. If people can think of one, then please enlighten me. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 21, 2021 10:33:44 GMT
Wasn’t “they” singular before becoming plural anyway? Yeah but its also plural which makes it incredibly inelegant to use in everyday conversation. The girl has an NB friend and it is a nightmare talking to her about how her day was. They is one specific person and/or all the rest of her friends. |
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 21, 2021 10:36:58 GMT
Wasn’t “they” singular before becoming plural anyway? They had always been singular or plural depending on context. It’s the safest word to use given how many other options there are, the odds of getting it right is slim. They need to consolidate their pronouns, making it too confusing means even the best intentioned people can’t keep up. |
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 21, 2021 10:41:58 GMT
Some of the issues people have around cultural appropriation are ridiculous, similar with actors getting criticised for taking on certain roles. Sometimes it’s been valid but other times it’s an extreme view that gets overblown by social media and some of the press.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 21, 2021 10:47:49 GMT
Trump is to establish his own social media platform and media subscription service. The latter will feature 'non woke' programming, news reports, podcasts etc
Can see the grifters rubbing their hands smelling the money. Basically GB News.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 21, 2021 10:50:14 GMT
It depends on your view of "massive issue", but I can appreciate how some things are problematic. A white person using ceremonial Indian headdress to cosplay at festival without understanding the importance of that attire to those people is a tad troublesome.
Using a sacred artifact of an oppressed people for a bit of jolly fun does feel a bit icky to me.
Perhaps a larger issue is how certain aspects of culture can be taken from cultures that are beaten down, and used to profit, without any of it going back to the origin.
To use a simplified example, an music artist from a minority might struggle to gain recognition because their work is accepted as mainstream. It won't recieve airplay, and all the while they're also facing the institutionalised racism in the wider system.
A white artists hears their stuff and copies it, pushes it out, without acknowledging the source. It becomes a novelty hit. Meanwhile the minority artists continues to struggle, and can even find their own with mocked and attacked.
Now it gets blurry, because sometimes the white artist fully acknowledges the roots of their inspiration and has a lot of respect for it. The difference between, say, The Beastie Boys and Vanilla Ice. And sometimes the white artist can help open the doors to the minority artists (which is very much what The Beasties did with hip hop).
I can see how it could be frustrating when somebody in the mainstream culture uses something from a minority culture for the fun of it, without acknowledging or having faced the troubles the minorities face.
As Dave rapped in "Black" it's about how:
"They take our features when they want and have their fun with it
Never seem to help with all the things we know would come with it"
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