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Post by Danno on Oct 22, 2021 9:03:25 GMT
It's because of the spiders and other disgusting bugs and killer shit you have over there. I thought you were Australian SHOTS FIRED |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 22, 2021 9:06:49 GMT
I thought you were Australian SHOTS FIRED I think it's because he's one of the people from EG I'd weirdly coupled in my head (with MolarAm), like gremmi and Dirtbox |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 9:17:38 GMT
I'm far too scared of spiders to be an Aussie. I do like beer and bbqs though.
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Oct 22, 2021 10:49:22 GMT
I still don't understand how the Papa Lazarou character is troubling. He's a scary vaudeville pastiche. He's not "bloke in blackface" from the 70s. But then I am a massive fan of The League so what do I know Seems pretty obvious to me. To appear as him you literally have to be in blackface. The whole concept of the character is that he appears to be in blackface but actually that's his real appearance (except he's not black, he's some kind of monster who happens to look like someone in blackface, which itself is a bit dubious). Conceptually you can see what they were going for especially with the absurdism of the show, but there's literally no way around it being a white guy in blackface. Further, outside of a specific narrow age range of British people with certain interests, he's a pretty damn obscure character, so all most people will see is "Oh a fucking wanker who thinks he's funny in blackface". Good luck explaining the elaborate character backstory and how it's tooooooootally justified and not at allllllll racist or anything like that to your boss/HR when someone at work finds pics of you in a shoddy attempt at the character on your mate's Insta or whatever. It seems like very basic common sense and circumspection should demonstrate the issue really lol. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 22, 2021 10:57:55 GMT
I always kind of thought it was a weird, creepy interpretation/pastiche of some of our more colourful traditions but then im not a mad fan. But it did always make me think 'insane morriss dancer' rather than 'minstrel' (not that morriss dancing blackface isnt problematic in and of itself).  |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 22, 2021 11:06:00 GMT
Again, white bloke here so admit my judgment is not the one that matters here, I don't think the Papa Lazarou character itself is an issue in context, I don't think he's a racial stereotype or caricature.
But yeah, I wouldn't choose to wear it as a costume because the appearance would be totally misconstrued.
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Oct 22, 2021 11:50:30 GMT
Again, white bloke here so admit my judgment is not the one that matters here, I don't think the Papa Lazarou character itself is an issue in context, I don't think he's a racial stereotype or caricature. But yeah, I wouldn't choose to wear it as a costume because the appearance would be totally misconstrued. it's not even "misconstrued". You would literally be a guy in blackface. This joke was used incredibly well in Community,where someone dressed as an accurate Drow (from D&D). Those episodes are currently not available due to a previous moral panic but they demonstrated the issue well and engaged with it honestly on a way Gentlemen did not, which just thought it was funny. As for he looks like Morris dancer (they stopped doing that and switched to blue, btw) that is a bit off the mark, I'm afraid, because there was a long tradition of Vaudeville blackface and Lazarou looks like that. For example, Charles Mack: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mack_(blackface_performer). Lazarou is essentially an exaggeration of that, with much larger white areas around the eyes and mouth. I've seen Vaudeville blackface performers who were even closer to Lazarou, too. He's reference to creepy Vaudeville stuff that was no doubt familiar to his creators (including Gatiss who lives for creepy Victoriana). I get that LoG is a big deal to some people and so they're defensive of it, but if there was some show you'd never heard of, and the was a character, a monster, even, which happened to look exactly like an exaggeration of a Gollywog, and would immediately read as "Gollywog" to anyone not familiar with the show would you think that was cool and fine? Imagine you're a young Black kid just started work somewhere and you see a colleague's Insta and oh look, there he is dressed up in full blackface as a Gollywog. He may have this elaborate explanation about how it's not racist, just directly inspired by racist imagery (lol Jesus), but it's not going to make you feel a lot better. I don't think we need to castigate the LoG writers etc or hide the episodes (a warning would suffice, like Disney does), but it's probably best to let the past die in this case. |
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Oct 22, 2021 11:51:51 GMT
Again, white bloke here so admit my judgment is not the one that matters here, I don't think the Papa Lazarou character itself is an issue in context, I don't think he's a racial stereotype or caricature. But yeah, I wouldn't choose to wear it as a costume because the appearance would be totally misconstrued. it's not even "misconstrued". You would literally be a guy in blackface. Just one with an elaborate and flimsy-seeming explanation for why it totally wasn't racist. This joke was used incredibly well in Community,where someone dressed as an accurate Drow (from D&D). Those episodes are currently not available due to a previous moral panic but they demonstrated the issue well and engaged with it honestly on a way Gentlemen did not, which just thought it was funny. As for he looks like Morris dancer (they stopped doing that and switched to blue, btw) that is a bit off the mark, I'm afraid, because there was a long tradition of Vaudeville blackface and Lazarou looks like that. For example, Charles Mack: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mack_(blackface_performer). Lazarou is essentially an exaggeration of that, with much larger white areas around the eyes and mouth. I've seen Vaudeville blackface performers who were even closer to Lazarou, too. He's reference to creepy Vaudeville stuff that was no doubt familiar to his creators (including Gatiss who lives for creepy Victoriana). I get that LoG is a big deal to some people and so they're defensive of it, but if there was some show you'd never heard of, and the was a character, a monster, even, which happened to look exactly like an exaggeration of a Gollywog, and would immediately read as "Gollywog" to anyone not familiar with the show would you think that was cool and fine? Imagine you're a young Black kid just started work somewhere and you see a colleague's Insta and oh look, there he is dressed up in full blackface as a Gollywog. He may have this elaborate explanation about how it's not racist, just directly inspired by racist imagery (lol Jesus), but it's not going to make you feel a lot better. I don't think we need to castigate the LoG writers etc or hide the episodes (a warning would suffice, like Disney does), but it's probably best to let the past die in this case. |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 12:07:10 GMT
I always kind of thought it was a weird, creepy interpretation/pastiche of some of our more colourful traditions but then im not a mad fan. But it did always make me think 'insane morriss dancer' rather than 'minstrel' (not that morriss dancing blackface isnt problematic in and of itself). I remember going to the Obby Oss festival on May Day in Padstow some years back with a Cornish friend and being shocked about how much blackface was in evidence. It's "traditional and not racist", apparently, but they used to have a similar festival at midwinter called "Darkie Day". Just because something's traditional, it doesn't mean it isn't rooted in racism. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2021 12:17:03 GMT
Fucking hell, 'Darkie Day'? Yeah... tradition.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 12:20:35 GMT
Fucking hell, 'Darkie Day'? Yeah... tradition. Right? The excuse was that it was in contrast to the summer festivals, where they wore white (but also did blackface). Look at this mealy-mouthed shite: www.cornwalls.co.uk/events/darkie_days.htmDefinitely just "tradition". Yeah. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 22, 2021 12:38:25 GMT
it's not even "misconstrued". You would literally be a guy in blackface. Just one with an elaborate and flimsy-seeming explanation for why it totally wasn't racist. This joke was used incredibly well in Community,where someone dressed as an accurate Drow (from D&D). Those episodes are currently not available due to a previous moral panic but they demonstrated the issue well and engaged with it honestly on a way Gentlemen did not, which just thought it was funny. As for he looks like Morris dancer (they stopped doing that and switched to blue, btw) that is a bit off the mark, I'm afraid, because there was a long tradition of Vaudeville blackface and Lazarou looks like that. For example, Charles Mack: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mack_(blackface_performer). Lazarou is essentially an exaggeration of that, with much larger white areas around the eyes and mouth. I've seen Vaudeville blackface performers who were even closer to Lazarou, too. He's reference to creepy Vaudeville stuff that was no doubt familiar to his creators (including Gatiss who lives for creepy Victoriana). I get that LoG is a big deal to some people and so they're defensive of it, but if there was some show you'd never heard of, and the was a character, a monster, even, which happened to look exactly like an exaggeration of a Gollywog, and would immediately read as "Gollywog" to anyone not familiar with the show would you think that was cool and fine? Imagine you're a young Black kid just started work somewhere and you see a colleague's Insta and oh look, there he is dressed up in full blackface as a Gollywog. He may have this elaborate explanation about how it's not racist, just directly inspired by racist imagery (lol Jesus), but it's not going to make you feel a lot better. I don't think we need to castigate the LoG writers etc or hide the episodes (a warning would suffice, like Disney does), but it's probably best to let the past die in this case. Good points, well made. Zwarte Piet is still okay though,right?? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 12:56:29 GMT
Mixed marriages are the real danger to society  |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 13:03:11 GMT
Mixed marriages are the real danger to society On the plus side, these people are dead. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2021 13:18:55 GMT
Mixed marriages are the real danger to society This was almost bordering on parody until you realise that people still think this way. Also "coffee coloured little imp", what a charmer. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 22, 2021 13:22:03 GMT
'Bloody Beaker folk. Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus Estuary from the Iberian Peninsula in improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat?'
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2021 13:28:08 GMT
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 13:34:01 GMT
*am shocked* Also: Chin. Because that's the way you wrote it. |
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Post by suicida on Oct 22, 2021 13:38:45 GMT
Funny how it didn't affect Germany, a country with laws against promoting Nazi shit.
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Post by 😎 on Oct 22, 2021 15:19:24 GMT
But but but how does that align with right wing voices being biased against and Big Tech hating red blooded patriots and siding with snowflake libs?
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 22, 2021 15:30:03 GMT
Chin. Because that's the way you wrote it. Literally. Right wing politicians have the dumbest and most obnoxious views. Right wing people like their tweets, left wing people mindlessly and repeatedly hate-tweet them, algorithm goes 'engagement high brrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm'. Twitter just dont want to admit that morons drive more traffic. Its not rocket surgery. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 15:43:01 GMT
Mixed marriages are the real danger to society This was almost bordering on parody until you realise that people still think this way. Also "coffee coloured little imp", what a charmer. I was surprised how the interviewer actually came across. Polite but clearly opposed to the thicko. Even ended with "I couldn't disagree more but at least you say it out loud so we know who you really are" type statement. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 22, 2021 15:45:10 GMT
Seems like everything was black and white back then, there wasn't much middle ground
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Post by richarddavies on Oct 22, 2021 15:58:04 GMT
Mixed marriages are the real danger to society That's for posting that. I found it fascinating. Ended up watching the full episode on YouTube. I sat there thinking "god, how far we've come since then" and then I read the comments section... |
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Post by retro74 on Oct 22, 2021 17:37:20 GMT
Not sure we’ve come that far at all, I see people being unashamedly racist on Twitter all the time as if it’s now acceptable, almost patriotic
I vaguely remember a feature on Granada Reports from the 80s where they were asking white women what they would do if a black man got on the bus
As long as stupid people continue to breed we will always have racists
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Post by Sarfrin on Oct 22, 2021 17:49:09 GMT
Fucking hell, 'Darkie Day'? Yeah... tradition. Right? The excuse was that it was in contrast to the summer festivals, where they wore white (but also did blackface). Look at this mealy-mouthed shite: www.cornwalls.co.uk/events/darkie_days.htmDefinitely just "tradition". Yeah. Jesus motherfucking Christ on an electric bike. "try" to change the songs back? Just print out the non-racist words and sing them you bigoted twats. |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 18:28:13 GMT
Jesus motherfucking Christ on an electric bike. "try" to change the songs back? Just print out the non-racist words and sing them you bigoted twats. Crazy, huh? You can feel the resentment in that apparently explanatory statement. |
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Post by Sarfrin on Oct 22, 2021 18:31:46 GMT
Jesus motherfucking Christ on an electric bike. "try" to change the songs back? Just print out the non-racist words and sing them you bigoted twats. Crazy, huh? You can feel the resentment in that apparently explanatory statement. They put you in jail these days just for putting on a massive public display of racism. |
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Post by 😎 on Oct 22, 2021 18:32:29 GMT
I like how they try to blame all the racism on American tradition too, as if middle England was some kind of bigotry free paradise before those darned yanks.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 22, 2021 18:38:01 GMT
Middle England is home to the Black Country, were coal workers problematic? They blacked up a hell of a lot.
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