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Post by peacemaker on Mar 27, 2024 11:38:31 GMT
Yeah quick resume is epic. I didn’t think I cared about it until I got a pc and have to wait each time to play a game. Steam has to load, some kind of anti cheat and then the game.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Mar 27, 2024 11:41:06 GMT
Love my S, Gamepass and Quick Resume. For my money Xbox are still struggling from the colossal fuck up of the Xbox One's initial marketing. A complete Ratner moment they've never recovered from. It's not even a theory at this point it's just clear fact that even Xbox management concede too. I don't think they'll ever recover console specs has nothing to do with it when people have already invested significantly in their digital library, they're not going to give it up now.
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Post by rhaegyr on Mar 27, 2024 11:47:53 GMT
I'm not that tied to my digital library in all honesty, I went 360 > PS4 > Series S.
Appreciate that a ton of people are though and it's a big factor in deciding what console to buy.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Mar 27, 2024 11:54:34 GMT
I'm not that tied to my digital library in all honesty, I went 360 > PS4 > Series S. Appreciate that a ton of people are though and it's a big factor in deciding what console to buy. I guess I've always been a two console person since I started making my own money properly. I think I used the 360 more than my PS3 and when I got a PS4 I used that more than my One although I shifted to the One X when I got because it was genuinley a big step up from the One. This gen I've used the PS5 waaaaaaaaay more, there's just more games I want to play despite my friends list being more xbox.
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Post by peacemaker on Mar 27, 2024 11:59:14 GMT
Yeah an old game library means nothing to me. Ditched all my ps4 library. I don’t have time to replay all my old games and most of the old library is either on game pass or cheap as chips now if I got the urge to randomly play uncharted 4 or something.
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Post by technoish on Mar 27, 2024 12:02:32 GMT
I've got two Series Xs, if that counts
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Mar 27, 2024 12:37:57 GMT
I’ve always had all of them.
Xbox OG became my main when it launched, PS2 became secondary. 360 stayed that way, with the PS3 secondary. XOne was supposed to be but I just hated the interface, that was the sole reason the PS4 took pole and I’ve just never gone back to a MS machine. Sold my Series X a few weeks ago, and I’ll play Xbox titles that don’t hit PS on PC.
It would be tough for me to swap back at this point, due to the digital library (though I don’t replay much at all) and general ecosystem, but it could happen. If anything, I think I’d transition to PC if I made any moves.
GP is cool and I understand the appeal, but if I can access 95% of the titles on PS, plus their exclusives, it just doesn’t hold any sway for me. It would be nice to pay less but if that was a major decision maker I’d just be a PC player. Steam sales are insane (I’ve realised this recently after spending about £50 and getting 20 titles).
Ed: Spencer has stated that making better 1st party games won’t solve the Xbox sales problem, and that’s fair, but I think it would help. Other than more consistent console naming and 1st party, I can’t really think of what Sony do better? At this point there’s obviously brand recognition - people refer to consoles as “PlayStations” - but it’s not like MS and Xbox are unknown. It has come down to MS fucking it up, basically.
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Post by rhaegyr on Mar 27, 2024 12:46:28 GMT
My decision this time around was made easier as neither really have any exclusives I'm interested in (they've all been a bit shit this generation for my tastes) so I went for the best value proposition, hence the Series S.
Gamepass is the icing and Quick Resume the cherry on top.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Mar 27, 2024 12:50:40 GMT
In my opinion the problem with GP being their main USP, is that as good as it is, if you still have to/want to buy a PS5 for its exclusives, then buying both consoles costs a lot more than the savings you made on GP.
I already have a PS5 and while GP is tempting, some simple maths tells me its not at all an economical choice to jump in. Rightly or wrongly its still a "which platform has the exclusives" and no matter whether you judge based on quality or quantity Sony have them dead in the water for now
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Post by rhaegyr on Mar 27, 2024 12:53:22 GMT
I'd say quality is debatable - I'm as bored of Spiderman/God of War/Third Person Game as I am of Halo/Forza/Tired MS Franchise.
Slowly changing for me though as I really want to play Helldivers 2 and Rebirth.
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Post by gibroon on Mar 27, 2024 13:06:08 GMT
PS Extra is just over £8/mo and the amount of games on there is way more than I could ever play or have time to play. I think for that price it is definitely worth it and as was said before 95% of those games are on gamepass as well. I just trust PS more to take out exclusives that I like compared to MS. Never, ever liked the Xbox controller, the lack of symmetry makes me feel ill.
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Duffman5
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Post by Duffman5 on Mar 27, 2024 14:23:05 GMT
Yeah quick resume is epic. I didn’t think I cared about it until I got a pc and have to wait each time to play a game. Steam has to load, some kind of anti cheat and then the game. Just to add my praise for this, it is epic. I have to admit that when I heard of this feature I thought it was a gimmick, but it is awesome. I realise how much when I return to my ps5, although a good few games make use of the quick resume which is also good, not the ps4 games though unless I am missing something.
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KD
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Post by KD on Mar 27, 2024 14:26:52 GMT
I only had a Series X to complement my pc as I earned half of it through the rewards program, also cashed in a fair bit of Amazon credit and picked up a video doorbell and extra cameras for my house without spending any extra on them.
The rewards have been gutted but if I can swap to just spending my points on game pass ultimate sub and get by I'll be happy for now.
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Post by dangerousdave on Mar 27, 2024 14:44:45 GMT
I'm lucky enough to own both Series consoles, but I have to stick up for the Series S. I kinda wish this was their primary machine and developers had to get their games running on this first. I know that's a mental idea, especially when your trailing behind the competition by such a huge distance, but I am a big believer in affordable hardware.
I think we often over-estimate the number of gaming enthusiasts who care for raw power and would just be able to keep up with the latest releases. In a way the Switch is kind of testament to that (even though it offers a little more besides). Still, the idea of having a sub-£200 Fortnite machine or something that could play the latest mainstream games is something the market really needs. PC gaming is still massively expensive and is not something younger players can easily engage with. Especially if their parents do not want to splash the kind of cash necessary and safely maintain it.
The Series S in my bedroom gets as much attention as the X and visually, the games actually hold up very nicely. More so than a Digital Foundry direct-comparison will have you believe. It's easy to make something look bad next to something much nice, but in reality I have yet to play something on that little console that didn't look or run great. It probably helps that I am primarily a Gamepass user, but that's another big appeal right there.
I honestly think that if Microsoft stay in this race, they need to focus on cheaper hardware (with an optional premium model) and make sure developers have the tools and support they need to get their games up and running on it as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Do that and I think they could begin to eat into both Sony and Nintendo's sales.
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Post by gibroon on Mar 27, 2024 15:14:00 GMT
I can totally appreciate the idea of a £200 console, this seemed to be the point at which the mass market appeal ramped up in previous generations. I just think that ship has sailed due to inflation and costs of the parts themselves.
If it was still the case, PS5 would never have shifted so many consoles. I must admit I'm quite surprised how well it has done. Although the PS5 is unique in its design, its certainly not particularly attractive, bigger than the XBOX and probably a good bit louder as well from all accounts.
MS really need to get some very good new or existing IP that gives people the wow factor. They are fairly doomed otherwise, as has been said, you just stick to what you know and trust and Sony are kicking them in the teeth in that department.
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Mar 27, 2024 16:11:06 GMT
This gen XBOX have shot themselves in the foot with the Series-S. When you have a lesser machine that must be supported with your 1st party and even 3rd party games, it just doesn't make sense to prioritising XBOX. I also think that due to the gamepass being so good for value, when a game comes out and you have to stump up £50-£70, not many are going to bite. MS have not really capitalised their 1st party games either. This might change in the next few years but with everyone getting their 1st party games for "free", it's hard to see where they are going to get the money back from. Edit - missed dangerousdaves post. Took me over and hour to write this in between work. Basically what he says. To be honest I think maybe having two skus on the market doesn’t help rather than the s being a cheaper model/lesser machine. A part of me thinks that if they just focused on the S they might be sort of on to something. It plays most of, if not all last gen games at 60fps - and a majority of those games look fantastic today, and a majority of new games have a 60fps option. It’s great machine. They don’t need much more. If they focused on the S and advertising it heavily in conjunction with gamepass they might have faired a little better. But Phil is also the kind of dude that can’t help himself, he has to be seen being the best, biggest and most powerful, and with the X , it’s almost being a Willy waving competition. They’re kind of all over the place on advertising seemingly wanted to be liked by everyone when they already got an attractive proposition that they only semi realise they have with the s and gamepass, especially with the cost of living crisis.
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Post by Resident Knievel on Mar 27, 2024 17:32:20 GMT
I remember in one interview, with the development team for the xbox, they considered just shrinking the One X chip down then clocking it higher and connecting it to more modern storage and RAM.
They probably should have just done that.
Given that cpu limitations are only just beginning to show themselves in current releases, and AMD are only just now making strides in ray tracing and upscaling, releasing a follow up console this year would have been perfect.
But none of that bollocks really matters, any strategy would work if they bothered to market their machine properly and didn't have utterly backwards game development practices.
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baihu1983
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 27, 2024 17:54:37 GMT
Nintendo should just buy Xbox
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Mar 27, 2024 17:54:53 GMT
They fucked it with the Xbox One. All that Kinect, TV and DRM bullshit quite literally changed my pre-order choice from an XB One to a PS4. They missed an open goal.
Sony have done enough to keep me held in their ecosystem ever since. I go on my son's Series S now and again and I find even the basic user interface to be an absolute joke in comparison, and that's bearing in mind there are many things about the PS5's that isn't perfect.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Mar 27, 2024 20:22:00 GMT
dangerousdave I appreciated the idea of cheaper, smaller consoles. I don't need to play with the best graphics, and if people can access next-gen games at a lower price point, that's great. They are good for the enviroment too. But I think, as a business strategy, it could have only worked if developers had started making their games with the Series S as baseline, and scaled them up to PS5/SX later. In retrospect, this was an unrealistic expectation. It was already pretty much impossible due to the PS5 selling better, but even if it didn't, MS themselves basically admitted that the XSS is a scaled-down XSX, not the other way around. Developers were always expected to make cutting-edge graphics on the XSX first and foremost. New engines were being made, with higher power requirements. Upscaling techniques were being refined so games could look even more realistic. Multiplatform games needed to look the best they could, because that's how you wow players with trailers and screenshots. Regression has never happened in the videogames market, not even when the Wii was selling way more than the 360 and PS3. It was too optimistic to think that maybe technology would stop running for a bit. The price strategy was also problematic in itself. I first said it before the XSS even launched, but the magic $300 sweet spot... how long has it been, 15 years maybe? I think the last console to actually sell more at $300 was the Xbox 360. Now, people are very willing to spend $500 for new hardware. Hell, I'm pretty sure Sony could launch the PS6 at $700 and it would still be a big hit. Smartphones trained people for that. And even if price had been as important as they claimed, even if you assume the $200 difference was really that big, you could argue the PS5 Digital was a better option overall. Yeah, it was $100 more, but that's not as large a gap, and you got much more power, more storage, and the Sony exclusives. The XSS was a bit too cut down. The Series S + Game Pass combo was the big appeal for Microsoft, for a fairly low price you got access to a subscription of next-gen games. That was the big marketing push and I can understand why. But day-one indies can only do so much, and big third party games were always going to take a while to arrive on the service, certainly not on launch. They needed to prop up Game Pass with their own games, and they failed very hard at that. I like my Series S, but it's mostly a (better indeed) replacement for the Xbox One, used for X1/360/Xbox games. I have my PC for modern games. They are also cheaper on there.
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baihu1983
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 27, 2024 20:25:32 GMT
2 of the 3 best selling consoles have been massively underpowered compared to what else is out.
If MS gets its gaming in the right place they could have that stuff as well. Whatever they release next the focus shouldn't be graphics but performance. They have the studios now to be able to release quality after quality.
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Post by paulyboy81 on Mar 27, 2024 20:31:59 GMT
Every time I watch a DF discussion like that I'm reminded what a broad and complicated issue this is.
Sadly for Microsoft it's past the point of "make gud games innit lolz" that the twittersphere would have you believe. They're fighting nearly three decades of Sony dominance and *now* digital marketplace entrenchment, a couple of decent games a year aren't going to move the needle in any meaningful manner, although as a starter for ten, it certainly won't hurt either, I'm not saying they shouldn't try (and they are in fairness).
Obviously their own doing to a large degree, they squandered the momentum coming out of the 360 generation with the Xbox One launch and under invested in first party for nearly two decades. Also as much I applaud their PC PlayAnywhere initiatives and the likes of Game Pass, there's no denying it's eroded the exclusivity of their games, consoles units sold and software sales, as you would expect.
Hell, despite their obvious success Sony's margins are quickly vanishing, with even their own heralded first party output in a bit of black hole currently thanks to a combination of unsustainable development cycles and a Ryan led re-focus on live service nonsense.
The whole AAA game development industry feels completely unsustainable at this point.
Mentioned in the DF video above and obviously Spencer can be heard recently saying he likes the idea of Epic and Steam storefronts available on Xbox (he would say that though, he'd clearly love an Xbox storefront in the PlayStation ecosystem), but a PC/Xbox hybrid console with a SteamOS like approach could be a very cool thing.
A box that plays both Xbox games new and old plus access to PC storefronts to run PC code in a "Xbox Console Verified" Steam Deck like manner could be a really incredible thing.
Enough of a cool thing to move the needle for Microsoft? Lord knows at this stage quite frankly.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Mar 27, 2024 20:38:31 GMT
It's quite ironic that they tried to kill total ownership of physical media and now find themselves struggling because ownership of physical media is on the decline and people are entrenched in their digital libraries.
It's almost as if the best idea is to let people decide for themselves when it's convenient to change how they consume their media.
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Post by paulyboy81 on Mar 27, 2024 20:47:49 GMT
It's quite funny to look back at the Xbox One launch. Looking at the rise of digital ownership and voice activated smart home devices plus various trends in the TV space, they weren't necessarily a million miles off, some might even call it vaguely prophetic.
They just went about it like absolute fannies.
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baihu1983
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 27, 2024 20:51:58 GMT
They knew what was coming but went into it so arrogantly. But I think thy biggest mistake was trying to force Kinect. Never recovered from that and if I remember right? Was over a year before they could sell the Xbox One without a Kinect.
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Mar 27, 2024 21:00:42 GMT
I was thrilled when they announced backwards compatibility for the Xbox One, because I already had a very healthy x360 digital library I didn’t want to lose. Shame for them there weren’t more trendy digital early adopters like me, or they might not have suffered so much losing the XBone / PS4 generation when most people went digital.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2024 21:13:19 GMT
I think the cheaper, less powerful hardware thing only works for Nintendo, as that’s what people have come to expect from them, and they have the IP catalog to make their hardware essential. I don’t think the Series S would be nearly as successful as it has been if it were the only SKU. I think it being folks’ “second console” to their PS5s have actually hurt the Series X’s sales greatly.
Nobody really wants to play Gears or Forza at lower settings, let alone third party multiplatform titles.
On the topic of bc titles, it was a big selling point at the start of the generation, but seeing them pretty much drop it months after the consoles launched has been disappointing.
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Post by Resident Knievel on Mar 27, 2024 22:20:43 GMT
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Post by paulyboy81 on Mar 27, 2024 22:48:46 GMT
Much as I love the Series S...
That digital only white Series X priced *really* aggressively (as in £299) at launch instead of the Series S might have done them a few more favours.
Easy for me to say they should just absorb the hundreds of millions of dollars it would have cost them obviously.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Mar 27, 2024 23:34:48 GMT
Much as I love the Series S... That digital only white Series X priced *really* aggressively (as in £299) at launch instead of the Series S might have done them a few more favours. Easy for me to say they should just absorb the hundreds of millions of dollars it would have cost them obviously. If MS were prepared to absorb such a loss in exchange for market share, they could just offer the standard Series X at that competitive price from the get-go, undercutting both PS5 SKU's and making Sony sweat. I don't think ditching the Blu-Ray drive (especially bought at high volumes) would drive their cost down by much and them offering one full-featured console SKU would make a statement of intent for their vision of the future of gaming; physical media co-existing with digital sales...
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