Motorsport

Driver in front doesn't usually have DRS though? If you afford it to this weekend race, Lewis would have been disadvantaged more than Max.

I don't think this is as hard for the FIA as some are making out. Surely they can just

1) accept the video as new information and grounds for a review because otherwise they look ridiculous
2) presumably conclude that video and telemetry shows that Max did force another driver off the road
3) let Max off with a reprimand and penalty points but crucially no time penalty or grid drop, due to it not being his fault it wasn't investigated at the time
4) put Max on notice that if he does it again it'll be +5secs or worse as he's been warned
5) lay down the law to all 20 drivers that you can't run each other off the road without penalty, even if it's a braking mistake rather than deliberate.

What Solid said.  His battery was all that was saving him up the hill.  Plus the lap before the incident he was so close to leaving the track at the same corner (I couldn't tell when I replayed it) that maybe under the new rule he'd have already lost ERS and Hamilton might have got a clean move done into T1 instead of T4.

I also like the idea because it should work for stuff like the outside of T1 and final turns at Austria.  You'll absolutely get mugged up the hill the following lap without ERS and DRS.  Might even help for breaking DRS chains up as if you can pressure the guy ahead into running wide they can still keep their foot planted on all the tarmac out there and possibly temporarily keep the place, but they'll be in trouble the following lap.

I'm going for 5 second penalty, loss of 2nd place.

I've done fairly well with my predictions for the weekend thus far... so bank on it! lol

Strictly speaking, I think they have the option to apply a retrospective time penalty. However, I don't think they will and it wouldn't be very fair.

I just want them to review it properly with all the angles, the telemetry, publish the findings and explain what is and isn't allowed with the benefit of more time.

The whole world looks to F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport and they have a responsibility to set the right example of what is fair racing and what is too aggressive. It's not just F1 that will be damaged if what's acceptable becomes ever more forceful. Shoving the driver on the outside off never used to be a thing because it's dangerous and there was gravel and walls beyond the curb. Then it was sometimes allowed provided you were ahead and stayed on the track. Without a correction, the implication is it's now ok to fully leave the circuit taking others with you so long as there's no contact. What's next, no track limits, full contact single seater racing?

I guess Mercedes will argue that 3 championship points are at stake. Bottas finished 3 seconds behind Max. If they did win the appeal Bottas would move into second place shortening Max’s lead in the championship by a further 3 points. Whether Max could have controlled the gap I don’t know but the result is what it is.

I don’t really want to see retroactive action either but if it’s a 5 second pen in the race then some sort of action as to be taken?. I’m guessing a 3 grid place drop for the next race.

I'm as certain as I can be that Max coasted after being overtaken so yes it wouldn't be fair to take a place off him retrospectively.

I get why there is a temptation to bring the consequences (i.e. the fact they didn't make contact and Lewis eventually got past) into the discussion, but really they shouldn't be relevant as to deciding whether it was a foul or not.

Comparing it to football, just because the attacker manages to jump out the way, a two-footed studs-up potential leg breaker isn't just ignored. Similarly, not penalizing because Hamilton got by later on, is rather like ignoring a dangerous late challenge because the striker got the shot off and scored. Yes, you could let it go, but that defender will then simply continue kicking and intimidating other players because it can be an effective strategy. If that defender eventually does break someone's leg, that's on the officials as much as it is the offender.

Hence why Mercedes had to appeal it and the FIA have to do something. 

EDIT: This is only a problem because the stewards looked at it too briefly and hastily made the wrong call.  Really the FIA just need to say the stewards called it wrong in the heat of the moment, will investigate a similar incident fully next time, and leave it there.

Yes, this would be a sensible approach.

It's much like the Silverstone one for me. Total storm in a teacup incident heightened by championship implications. There's a shitload of tribalism involved and from an outside perspective of not really being bothered which driver wins and just enjoying a close battle, it all seems a little bit overblown and dramatic.

Although the race director and stewards are constantly looking completely out of their depth which is probably the most concerning matter and not just for Max/Lewis incidents. Stuff like not immediately stopping the race in Baku after the Red Bull crashed and the entirety of the Sunday in Spa really don't paint the 'pinnacle of motorsport' in a very professional light. Happens constantly.

A nice contrast from the vicious politics

youtu.be/-ZZP35aghKo

3 genuinely nice sportsmen.

Well, I think the onboard showed more clearly that a) Hamilton was fully ahead so there's no way that Max didn't know he was there and b) Max intentionally didn't apply the necessary lock and make an effort to get to the apex. I don't really get why the telemetry shouldn't considered 'new' as well as Massi already admitted they didn't look at that either.

Anyway, I'm disappointed but not surprised they have rejected the review. I'd be ok with it if the drivers are told by another means you can't drive each other off the track. Without any clear message that what Max did was not ok, we are left with the assumption that this is the new normal which would be quite sad. It takes less skill to raise unfairly by ignoring the edges of the track and swerving all over the place than it does to race fairly and carefully judging your position within the lines and respecting your opponent.

What's worse is Max has been at his arrogant worst in interviews since claiming he'd do exactly the same thing again and 'it's not kindergarten'. I'm rather tired of his tough guy bullshit and it needs reigning in by the FIA as Red Bull won't do it. Unchecked, the other drivers have no choice but to meet fire with fire and draw a line in the sand, and then you get another Copse. Andreas Siedel said as much today, what drivers do next will be informed by the stance the stewards take.

I'm all for 'hard racing', and that means giving each other just enough room for everyone to be able to stay on the track as defined by the white lines. Being cm accurate, going wheel to wheel at high speed takes real skill and trust in one another.  Take those points away and it's not the pinnacle of racecraft anymore, it's BTCC level 'see what you can get away with' bumper cars.

The drama continues as expected looking like red bull set to launch a protest against the merc rear wing.

All this is fairly normal for F1 just not seen it for a while due to it not being close. The politics is getting boring though.

For those of us of a certain age, who spent cold autumnal days standing in Grizedale or Clumber Park, this new doc might be of interest:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/19/michele-moutons-trailblazing-rallying-career-shocked-male-dominated-sport