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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:09:22 GMT
It's crazy. They've totally messed this up yet again. Should've told drivers to be sensible on lap 1, and not boxed Lando so early in the first stint when he was about to pass anyway.
Could've controlled this and instead they've left Max off the hook.
You can see the effect on dirty air here.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 1, 2024 14:12:05 GMT
You’d have thought they’d had run a sim on this too..
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:13:58 GMT
Leclerc's got this. They need to at least get Lando P2. Surprisingly given tyre age he's the faster McLaren now they are both pushing flat out.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 1, 2024 14:14:33 GMT
Yep this is done.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:16:33 GMT
Fair play to Charles. Great opportunism and capitalising on McLaren over complicating it.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:18:23 GMT
Swap the McLarens you fools. Not even a win on the line here anymore, it's idiotic.
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Post by mastercracker on Sept 1, 2024 14:19:46 GMT
Swap the McLarens you fools. Not even a win on the line here anymore, it's idiotic. Not seen something as braindead for good while. RB must be pissing themselves behind the scenes.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:21:39 GMT
Lando getting fastest lap at the end there on older tyres really proves he had the pace all along. So stupid. Absolute own goal to ensure he spent the entire race (bar last 5 laps) in dirty air.
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Post by Red_Bool on Sept 1, 2024 14:22:51 GMT
Looks like McLaren does not believe in the driver's WDC. Weird...
Anyway, lovely drive from LeClerc.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 1, 2024 14:25:20 GMT
Well that’s two for two shit sporting decisions this weekend
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:25:48 GMT
Need to see lap 1 again but it looked to me like Lando got unavoidably slipstreamed and then could've eased off the brakes and shoved Oscar off but didn't (correctly). Spent the whole race disadvantaged as a reward for being very fair. Literally think the only thing Lando could've done differently (better?) lap 1 is take his teammate out. I don't think Piastri did too much wrong other than take slightly more risk than sensible given Championship situation but the team should've swapped them back.
Kind of think Lando needs to seriously consider how much he'll be a team player moving forward. Does look like Hungary was in vain.
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Post by dangerousdave on Sept 1, 2024 14:34:06 GMT
I think McLaren are looking at the constructors. I honestly can’t see the drivers championship swinging away from Verstappen (don’t know why I said Vettel). They will come good again at some point this year. Just focus on banking the points and making sure they get the car right from the first race next season.
Thing is, Piastri is genuinely good. Maybe not as fast as Lando, but fast enough to cause these issues. It would be really shit on him if he was being asked to move out of the way all the time.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:34:27 GMT
Where I do think Lando is at fault is for saying he's not in the drivers title fight. Red Bull's issue suddenly means he is (in contrast to how it looked after Spa and even Zandvoort). He needs to pipe up and pressure the team and change the narrative.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 1, 2024 14:39:04 GMT
Thing is, Piastri is genuinely good. Maybe not as fast as Lando, but fast enough to cause these issues. It would be really shit on him if he was being asked to move out of the way all the time. I agree, he's doing extremely well to be so close to Lando but ultimately he didn't do a good enough job in the first half of the season to go for the WDC himself this year. It's normal for F1 that you then become a team player. It's not F2. He'd also be even further back without Lando being taken out by Max in Austria losing 25pts and getting the benefit of a marginal team order in Hungary. It is what it is this year.
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Sept 1, 2024 16:06:05 GMT
Good win today from Leclerc.
Lando causing himself all sorts of issues but would have thought without a win on the line they would have asked Oscar to swap positions on the last lap. Drivers championship, although difficult to swing round, is still there to be won.
Good debut from Colapinto too. 12th and only 10 or so seconds behind his teammate
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Post by damagedinc on Sept 1, 2024 19:57:36 GMT
Piastri cost them a 1-2 and lost lando points in the driver's championship by doing that move. It's stupid.
I get they want them to fight fairly and clearly don't want to be red bull in terms of how they treat their drivers. However this is just common sense.
After T1 they should have been told no matter who is in front hold station. No matter the thoughts on landos chances at mclaren this cost them constructors points.
Fair play Ferrari they took advantage!
How amazing does monza look with a Ferrari win..in Silverstone this year they stopped 3/4s of the crowd getting on the track to celebrate Hamiltons win.......
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Post by mastercracker on Sept 2, 2024 6:41:35 GMT
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 2, 2024 7:12:05 GMT
All they've done by waiting is throw away 3pts for Lando, probably 10pts.
I'm glad Stella has now 'realised' but it was obvious after Zandvoort that the maths meant they couldn't afford to fight each other and Max.
When Lando stuck it on pole again, I really thought that was him fulfilling his side of the bargain to get that support.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 2, 2024 8:38:53 GMT
If Piastri is so good, then stick it on pole consistently. Job done. No questions asked.
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Gruf
Junior Member
Even more taciturn than my name suggests
Posts: 1,522
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Post by Gruf on Sept 2, 2024 9:02:20 GMT
They are making it more difficult for Lando to win it for sure not easier. Piastri is a great young driver but he can't win it this year. A number of times now Lando has done the job in qualifying only to have his teamate compromise him at the start of laps (thanks to his own bad starts TBF). It is not like Lando can squeeze his own teammate without major consequences. Can't blame Piastri he is doing his job until told otherwise. If they had thrown their weight behind their "lead" driver earlier the championship would be much closer, as it is Verstappen will probably have another one in the bag, though it is fun to see him moaning. Maybe it was Newey's genius all along Shortsighted by McLaren
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Buu
New Member
Posts: 407
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Post by Buu on Sept 2, 2024 9:02:38 GMT
When Lando stuck it on pole again, I really thought that was him fulfilling his side of the bargain to get that support. Not sure he is fulfilling his end of the bargain by constantly losing the lead by the end of the first lap in pretty much all of his pole position starts.
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Gruf
Junior Member
Even more taciturn than my name suggests
Posts: 1,522
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Post by Gruf on Sept 2, 2024 9:05:56 GMT
I think they should be doing everything in their power at every stage to get Lando every point possible.
We saw it countless times with RB and Mercedes for Verstappen and Hamilton
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 2, 2024 9:15:04 GMT
Like everything there should be a balance. Ferrari with MSC and Alonso occasionally went too far, and Red Bull with Vettel similar, bringing in team orders too early and interfering before the WDC had really taken shape.
Assuming they are competing with another team rather than in a dominant position what's reasonable is that both drivers are treated equally till at least the halfway point and it's clear one is a better bet for the WDC or that one is out of contention. It is a team sport.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 2, 2024 9:31:38 GMT
I honestly think it's baffling. There's no amount of should have or could have for Norris. He was pole. He's in contention for the WDC. Your second driver in that situation should be holding up the drivers behind. If they were both on a level playing field, then sure go at it.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 2, 2024 9:56:59 GMT
When Lando stuck it on pole again, I really thought that was him fulfilling his side of the bargain to get that support. Not sure he is fulfilling his end of the bargain by constantly losing the lead by the end of the first lap in pretty much all of his pole position starts. If you analyse his pole starts individually there aren't any fundamental driver issues. His reaction times are good, as the data is published so we know this. I think it's a team issue as much as anything. Combo of start throttle maps and not working together as teammates, with Piastri willing to take more risks than Lando (entirely understandable that he'd have a more in a win or bust mindset). - Barcelona, not a bad start but he got out dragged on the long run to T1 then couldn't defend Max on the inside 'normally' because Russell had made a better start than both of the front row and had the tow. Did the right thing to back out and avoid a collision and play the long game. - Hungary was a worse start than Piastri alongside but he was still marginally ahead into the T1 braking zone. It was thanks to Lando's sensible driving that they didn't crash as Piastri slightly missed his braking point and the apex. Similar to Barcelona, he was denied the opportunity to defend normally by a car present on his outside and Max was only able to get there because he had effectively committed to not making the corner. Had Max not been there artificially, Lando probably leads out of T1. - Zandvoort. McLaren clearly had a an issue that affected both cars, whereas the Red Bull team & drivers absolutely nailed it. Watch it again and you'll see Perez's start was equally superb but he just had nowhere to go. P2 was best available outcome in the circumstances. - Monza. Good start and did everything correctly. Slip streamed through Curva Grande into the second chicane (same car, same tyres makes it inevitable once they left the first chicane line astern) and he did extremely well to avoid them coming together or spinning himself. Genuinely not sure what else he could reasonably have done better or differently? Only alternative would've been to strong arm his teammate off the track. Spa was the one where he should take blame for a bad job and poor driving, though that wasn't from pole. Otherwise he's done pretty well to handle the various starts sensibly without significant errors.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 5, 2024 8:46:30 GMT
Bit gutted about Newey going to Aston tbh. I wanted to start supporting him again and it feels like he's turned away from one toxic setup to join another.
They were pretty much my least favourite option simply because we know they are a defacto one car team. When the dominant car is owned by a one car team F1 gets boring.
I guess the only saving grace is that if they attempt to engineer a title for Lance then it means they either have to put a patsy who's worse than Lance in other car or do something even more manipulative (like F3 all those years ago). The fallout might be amusing at least.
Worst case is arguably that Laurence isn't fussed about who wins the WDC and they put someone actually good in the other car and Lance just becomes the Perez of the next era.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 5, 2024 8:54:39 GMT
Interesting that Newey's manager is Eddie Jordan and the team is built on.. Jordan. Coincidence?
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 5, 2024 10:04:54 GMT
Eddie was always weirdly sycophantic around billionaires. I bet he thinks Stroll Snr is brilliant.
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Gruf
Junior Member
Even more taciturn than my name suggests
Posts: 1,522
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Post by Gruf on Sept 5, 2024 11:02:48 GMT
Maybe Newey can "manipulate" the regs and design a two seater for Stroll so somebody competent can pick up results for Aston
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Post by zisssou on Sept 14, 2024 11:18:29 GMT
Predictions for pole?
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