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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 14:33:31 GMT
Should be license points as well.
Also I'm not sure they even investigated the driving Norris off the road bit yet.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 14:36:58 GMT
Norris certainly made a mistake when he locked up and went straight on a few laps earlier but he was far enough past by turn in that it wasn't dangerous and then gave the place back immediately.
Other than that, I think he's pretty blameless. Just good attacking racecraft.
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Post by TheSaint on Jun 30, 2024 14:38:00 GMT
Quite funny that with all that and a penalty Max still beats Perez.
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Post by monkman5000 on Jun 30, 2024 14:38:24 GMT
Just surprised as he hardly ever gets punished for shit like that. It should have been more. Yeah, same, it was a genuine 'huh' š
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 14:39:26 GMT
Yeah. Perez was terrible today.
Also Piastri despite P2 looked quite a way off what the car was capable of. George did really well to stay ahead of both. Really shouldn't have been able to.
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Post by PatrickEwing on Jun 30, 2024 14:40:14 GMT
Fuck off with that MV radio, fuck off
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Gruf
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Post by Gruf on Jun 30, 2024 14:40:49 GMT
Good race eventually, the return of evil Max, like he has ever really been away š
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Post by TheSaint on Jun 30, 2024 14:42:47 GMT
Pretty clear who the top three thought were at fault during that replay in the cooldown room.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 14:43:26 GMT
Haha, George.
"One's not enough" watching Max crash into Lando twice.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 14:48:12 GMT
Good race eventually, the return of evil Max, like he has ever really been away š Don't really know how much more evidence is required. Worst race craft in F1, in so far as he's rarely making contact because he's out of control, he's just massively cynical and dangerous.
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Post by darkling on Jun 30, 2024 15:02:00 GMT
Very entertaining race! Felt like Norris' race at the end there (until Max cheated) so gutted not to have a British driver + team combo on the podium, but great to see Russell win.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 15:06:17 GMT
Actually other key point here is that Lando had already legitimately passed him once, Max only maintaining position by going off the road to keep his foot down.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 15:56:13 GMT
Really good from Stella. He's such an impressive character. Hopefully he he'll keep the focus on standards and won't let Horner and Marko bring him down to their level like Toto did. I'm sure the personal jibes will come soon, now that McLaren and Norris are a genuine threat.
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Post by damagedinc on Jun 30, 2024 20:27:43 GMT
Well it was like going back in time, many including me did not believe max has changed in the slightest. All this bull shit about "maturing" is complete nonsense.
It's impossible to race him wheel to wheel. Win or bin. In some ways the relentless approach is quite impressive..however it ruins battles/races and is ultimately dangerous and petulant.
The worst of it all, is after colliding he then steers into norris forcing him onto the grass when already knowing he had a puncture etc. Should be points and a grid pen at least.
With norris and max going at each other, P3 looks like a great place to be at the moment lol.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jun 30, 2024 23:35:30 GMT
Aside from the racing ethics (which I know I get on my high horse about) I always come back to the point that what Max does is not hard. It's easier to defend by being erratic and inviting contact. This is the big problem. Everyone can do this, and then we have no more clean racing full stop. This analysis is excellent and unambiguous. There aren't any alternative facts. youtu.be/T_CcHcgIoTY
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Post by zisssou on Jul 1, 2024 6:57:15 GMT
I only caught the highlights after hearing about the crash which obviously made me interested. Yeah seems like a case of you canāt even get wheel to wheel racing right without Max causing an accident.
Itās a bit like football. Are they going to sit down Max and tell him please stop or weāll ban you? Like Man City. Thereās too much money invested in Max and Red Bull.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jul 1, 2024 7:10:06 GMT
That's a really good analogy in so far as weak regulation got them into this awkward position and getting out of it requires a degree of pain and embarrassment.
The key difference is Max doesn't hold anything like as much power as City. He and RB don't have more resources than the FIA and other teams and drivers, so there's not the same threat of litigation. Worst case Red Bull threaten to quit F1 with two teams. But prospective teams and owners are queuing up to come in so that's not that big a deal. Like City they aren't especially popular given their success. It's more about saving face and 'the show', which is exactly what got us here in the first place.
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Post by Gruf on Jul 1, 2024 7:48:25 GMT
Fucks sake, even Ocon can manage hard but fair racing with Gasly, (for one race anyway, lets face it, he is still bonkers) Max, not so much 2 points on his license, but still not gonna change his "you shall not pass" attitude.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jul 1, 2024 8:44:38 GMT
Max skipped most of the ladder and therefore had very little wheel to wheel racing outside of karts and in proper single seaters before F1. Consequently he also skipped the key part of a junior career where he'd normally have learnt racecraft, made mistakes, tested the boundaries and been told no with major personal consequences.
He races F1 cars like go karts, happy to take a bit of side to side contact. If he'd done this in F4/3/2 without the political shield of red bull F1 to protect him and assure him that everyone else was wrong, he'd have had major penalties, learnt and been better for it.
He thinks what he does is normal racing etiquette because circumstances meant he was never taught this stuff at the right time.
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Post by dangerousdave on Jul 1, 2024 10:02:16 GMT
He will go down in history in the same way Vettel. No matter how many championships he wins, he wonāt be held in the same regard as so many others. He has a massive weakness, which is racing against anyone else, and in order to look good he needs to be in, by some margin, the fastest car.
I know Perez has been woeful, and makes Verstappen look so much better, but we wouldnāt be comparing Perez with any greats, either.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jul 1, 2024 12:42:21 GMT
Clearly I don't like Max but I don't think it's fair to say he needs the best car to do well, or at least that's no more true for him than any other world champion.
He's very fast and fully merited his last two Championships.
I just think placing him alongside the best ever is absurdly premature when he has these glaringly obvious flaws that it doesn't look like he's capable of addressing.
The Vettel comparison is reasonable, though I think Max is better at driving around issues than Seb. I'd say you can draw comparison with Schumacher. Brilliant driver but massively tarnished his own legacy with his willingness to crash into people and the need to control his teammates.
Stop using your car as a weapon Max and see off at least one World Champion level teammate fair and square, then maybe we can talk about your place in history.
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Post by A46Matt on Jul 1, 2024 13:18:55 GMT
Max just drives like thereās no consequences, which there mostly havenāt been for him up to now. For the first time since the battle with Hamilton he has a genuine threat and he has reverted to type. Unfortunately, unless other drivers are willing to get equally as heavy handed with him as he has been, and risk damage etc, he will keep doing it as the stewards wonāt sort it out. The current safety that has been achieved in F1, whilst incredible, has also contributed to this as thereās no sense of danger in going wheel to wheel now seemingly.
This is something that tends to get sorted out on track with bike racing. If someone is over aggressive, itāll be handed back to them with interest pretty quick sharp. Or the stewards actually give penalties accordingly.
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Jul 1, 2024 13:57:26 GMT
Regarding yesterday, I feel a bit like that guy in the kebab shop meme where everyone is slipping over each other throwing fists while he's just happily eating his doner and chips with his headphones in. That was me watching Russell roll through into 1st for a fully deserved and thoroughly well earned victory.
Even threw up the T pose. Chad.
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Jul 1, 2024 18:48:03 GMT
In all seriousness though (although I was being deadly serious when I say George Russell winning went down a treat with me yesterday afternoon), my attitude towards wheel-to-wheel racing can be summed up with the acronym WWKRD? What Would Kimi Raikkonen Do?
Yes here I am simping for my boy again. It's been a while.
Young drivers should be fed video after video of the way this guy engaged in wheel-to-wheel combat. I obviously look extremely favourably on my monosyllabic Finnish hero but the one thing I could always be proud of being a fan of him was his fairness when it came to racing. Spatial awareness, awesome. Reading of a situation, awesome. Sometimes he lost a position and it was disappointing but he always fought to the the most perfect interpretation of what I believe to be fair in motor racing.
Unfortunately there is simply too much open to interpretation with stewards that are far too passive. From that we'll always be able to create our own heroes and villains while the grey zone is as loose as it appears to be.
But hey, we can all at least agree that George's late overtakes for the lead were phenomenally executed. It was just like Kimi would have done.
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Post by dangerousdave on Jul 1, 2024 19:19:49 GMT
Kimi Raikkonen is way better than Max.
Edit - Or was, I should say.
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Jul 1, 2024 20:46:39 GMT
You're my sort of guy.
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Post by mastercracker on Jul 1, 2024 21:23:58 GMT
Max skipped most of the ladder and therefore had very little wheel to wheel racing outside of karts and in proper single seaters before F1. Consequently he also skipped the key part of a junior career where he'd normally have learnt racecraft, made mistakes, tested the boundaries and been told no with major personal consequences. He races F1 cars like go karts, happy to take a bit of side to side contact. If he'd done this in F4/3/2 without the political shield of red bull F1 to protect him and assure him that everyone else was wrong, he'd have had major penalties, learnt and been better for it. He thinks what he does is normal racing etiquette because circumstances meant he was never taught this stuff at the right time. All true but misses the most important factor imoā¦the apple hasnāt fallen far from the tree and ultimately heās just a bit of a dick.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jul 1, 2024 23:16:51 GMT
The Finns in general seem to race fairly with the right mindset. I honestly think the Brits are pretty good too for the most part. The British junior system works pretty well at preventing fast dickheads like Ticktum getting to F1 unscathed.
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Post by zisssou on Jul 2, 2024 9:09:53 GMT
This made me want to go back and watch this again
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Post by dangerousdave on Jul 2, 2024 9:19:47 GMT
The F1 admins have blocked the video already.
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