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Post by quadfather on Jul 24, 2024 10:54:30 GMT
It's really good at giving you a sense of place. And like you both say, it's quite brutal in places if you just nonchalantly wander around, expecting to just blast through it, which creates great tension.
Same with the second one too, even more so.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 24, 2024 14:29:19 GMT
I'm kinda hoping that Nightdive will bin off the idea of System Shock 2 Enhanced Edition, in favour of doing a full-on remake like SS1R.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jul 24, 2024 14:53:36 GMT
To be fair given how long it took them to develop this (which I'm not against as they've done an amazing job), I don't think I could wait that long for the same treatment for SS2, regardless of how awesome it would be. I just want it playable on my big telly with a bit of an up-res and I'll be happy. That game is pure atmosphere that's still effective now IMO.
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 24, 2024 16:00:47 GMT
wunty I can see both sides of this discussion, in fairness! Like, I'm having a blast with SS1, and I'd buy SS2 at launch regardless of whether it was a remaster or a remake, but on balance I'd be happy to wait a bit. Wasn't System Shock Remake in development hell for a while? From memory, the devs started out using a different engine, then switched to Unreal; they also set out to make a reboot of sorts, before settling on a faithful remake. I guess I was/am hoping that the work they did on SS1 would lay the foundation for a remake of SS2. Unless the sequel was so different in terms of tone, setting etc. that it'd need to be remade completely from scratch, with no asset reuse whatsoever - in that case, my hopes are forlorn.
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Post by wunty on Jul 24, 2024 17:10:04 GMT
Yeah SS2 is quite a different beast from 1. There would I imagine be nothing that could be used to form the basis of a remake of the second one.
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 24, 2024 17:43:00 GMT
Oh, bum.
In that case, I guess it's just the experience of working with Unreal that could be carried forwards - better than nothing, but hardly the head start for which I was hoping!
Unless, of course, the System Shock Remake team became the System Shock 2 Remake team as soon as development on the former was complete, leaving behind a handful of people to work on the console ports of SS1R.
Is that a straw I see before me, the bendy bit towards my hand? Come, let me clutch thee...
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 24, 2024 22:40:46 GMT
While roaming around Maintenance, I encountered a retinal scanner. My own eyeballs proved insufficient to gain access to the room beyond.
"No worries!", I mused - "I'll borrow someone else's!"
Having debated internally for a while about whether I'd need one eyeball or two, and whether carrying loose eyeballs around would be more or less messy than an entire severed head, I set off on my journey.
I became unreasonably excited when I found a headless corpse in a random crawlspace, but my luck was fresh out: his bonce was nowhere to be found.
Upon discovering another dead body - this time, with its cranium where nature intended - I whipped out my Laser Rapier and set about removing the part I needed. I was so sure of my impending success, I checked my inventory to make sure I'd have room for the prize that was about to be mine.
Once again, 'twas all for naught: I managed to cut off the head, but I couldn't pick it off the floor. Not for the first time in my life, I'd defiled a corpse for no good reason.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 25, 2024 1:30:58 GMT
I would love it if they remade SS2 basically in the style of the SS1 remake. Same engine, same texture style, etc... and same philosophy of staying as close as possible to the original.
I guess that a lot of the delay with the SS1 remake was them trying to work out how exactly to do it. They pretty much nailed it, so I'd hope they could carry over a lot of that experience to SS2.
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Post by zisssou on Jul 25, 2024 5:39:26 GMT
wunty I can see both sides of this discussion, in fairness! Like, I'm having a blast with SS1, and I'd buy SS2 at launch regardless of whether it was a remaster or a remake, but on balance I'd be happy to wait a bit. Wasn't System Shock Remake in development hell for a while? From memory, the devs started out using a different engine, then switched to Unreal; they also set out to make a reboot of sorts, before settling on a faithful remake. I guess I was/am hoping that the work they did on SS1 would lay the foundation for a remake of SS2. Unless the sequel was so different in terms of tone, setting etc. that it'd need to be remade completely from scratch, with no asset reuse whatsoever - in that case, my hopes are forlorn. Yes that’s right. They did the Kickstarter and within a year they had run out of money and had little to show for it. They got rid of their original dev team and essentially started again with just a skeleton crew, that was funded month to month. Pretty crazy it managed to turn out so well in the end. |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 5:57:44 GMT
I'm kinda hoping that Nightdive will bin off the idea of System Shock 2 Enhanced Edition, in favour of doing a full-on remake like SS1R. Just to be clear, have you played ss2? If not I'd still highly recommend the version you can get now on pc if you can, as it's absolutely stunning. You can get it on gog and steam. You can mod the graphics too if you want. And it's probably about a fiver now. |
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 25, 2024 7:21:53 GMT
quadfather I haven't, no - System Shock Remake is my first experience with the series, having played (and loved) the BioShock trilogy, also for the first time, last year. Sadly, the closest thing I have to a PC is an iMac that's so old, it ought to be in a museum somewhere; I also think I'd find keyboard and mouse to be borderline impossible to use as an input method! So I'm (im)patiently waiting for Nightdive to do *something* with SS2, be it the long-awaited Enhanced Edition or an SS1-style ground-up remake.
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 8:07:45 GMT
If you play the enhanced edition when it comes out, I promise you would suddenly see the lack of need for a remade version.
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 8:09:54 GMT
Wheras SS1 benefits from a remade version, I genuinely think SS2 would lose something.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 25, 2024 8:20:14 GMT
I'm not so sure. I love SS2, but it's looking pretty old these days. The glow-ip they're doing is much more minimal, and basically still leaves it looking a lot older than SS1 Remake.  to  It's not terrible by any means, but I wish they'd update it to something more like SS1 Remake's graphics. Lighting, shaders, etc.. Other than the graphics, it's probably not in so much need of a refresh... except maybe some rebalancing to make some of the character classes / skills less useless. Like Thief, it was hardly cutting edge graphics at release, so it doesn't solely rely on the graphics for its atmosphere. But updated ones would really help imho. But if it's the only option, it's still definitely worth playing. |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 8:27:00 GMT
quadfather I haven't, no - System Shock Remake is my first experience with the series, having played (and loved) the BioShock trilogy, also for the first time, last year. Sadly, the closest thing I have to a PC is an iMac that's so old, it ought to be in a museum somewhere; I also think I'd find keyboard and mouse to be borderline impossible to use as an input method! So I'm (im)patiently waiting for Nightdive to do *something* with SS2, be it the long-awaited Enhanced Edition or an SS1-style ground-up remake. Ooo, if you like bioshock and ss1 you simply *must* play ss2! There is no negotiation here, you *have* to play it - it's pretty much the definitive of all these types of games. I'd even say it's worth getting a low end PC for! |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 8:29:18 GMT
Personally, I don't want ss2 remade. You can get gfx mods for the og as it is if you want, but I just play it vanilla every time. There's just something about it and it being upgraded just wouldn't be the same for me.
Newcomers in this day and age may prefer a more updated version, I understand that, but not for me! No sirree!
I'd like to be able to play it on the big telly but I'd still need the mouse and keyboard to play it. Suppose I could just use the steam link but keyboard and mouse on a sofa is a bit of a faff.
First world problems here!
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 8:41:24 GMT
I'm not so sure. I love SS2, but it's looking pretty old these days. The glow-ip they're doing is much more minimal, and basically still leaves it looking a lot older than SS1 Remake. to It's not terrible by any means, but I wish they'd update it to something more like SS1 Remake's graphics. Lighting, shaders, etc.. Other than the graphics, it's probably not in so much need of a refresh... except maybe some rebalancing to make some of the character classes / skills less useless. Like Thief, it was hardly cutting edge graphics at release, so it doesn't solely rely on the graphics for its atmosphere. But updated ones would really help imho. But if it's the only option, it's still definitely worth playing. Hah, looking at these screenshots, I can tell you now what I prefer. Like you say, SS2 wasn't a looker on release. The Dark Engine wasn't a patch on the likes of idTech and Unreal but it lived up to it's name. Such beautiful darkness. Everything was cloaked in shadow. Coupled with the fucking tremendous sound design meant it didn't have to look as pretty, because the immersion was next level. You were there. It was terrifying.
I played SS2 last year on my laptop with the reBirth mods and it's still immersive as fuck.
So yeah. I'm with quad. I want it just a bit smoothed out with some higher res rextures and as far as I'm concerend, I'm back shitting myself on the Von Braun again.
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 8:43:28 GMT
I mean. Just look at that colour palette. It's a thing of beauty. Those beige, muted tones. it feels like a proper retro sci-fi fucking nightmare.
Argh. I love SS2. It's the best game ever fucking made.
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 25, 2024 8:44:32 GMT
I really can understand both sides of this one. Like Bill, I thought the latest trailer for System Shock 2 Enhanced Edition made it look markedly older than System Shock Remake - not the end of the world, by any means, but I'd still prefer something a bit easier on the eyes.
Looking at gameplay footage of the original System Shock, and comparing it to the remake, I think Nightdive did a phenomenal job of updating the graphics for 2023 without losing the OG's sense of time and place. That's a tricky thing to pull off, but having done it once, I'm hopeful that they could do it again for the sequel.
Ultimately, though, I just want to play System Shock 2 ASAP!
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 25, 2024 8:48:23 GMT
As for what *will* happen, our personal hopes and dreams notwithstanding... I dunno. (Shocker, right?)
My prediction is that Judas will be out before the next iteration of System Shock 2, whichever form the latter ends up taking.
Nightdive has obviously announced SS2 Enhanced Edition already, but they've also said they'd like to do a full-on remake, so who knows what they're planning in reality.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 25, 2024 9:10:51 GMT
Yeah, I couldn't find an exactly similar screenshot, and the second one is more action.
I'd definitely tone down the color palette for SS2, but other than that I'd rather have the improved lighting, textures, enemy models, and shaders from SS1 remake for SS2.
It's not a deal breaker, but SS2 Enhanced is a lot less appealing to me than SS1 Remake, even though I love SS2. Because with a PC I could basically play SS2 with a HD mod and it's gonna be almost the same.
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 9:13:17 GMT
I'm not so sure. I love SS2, but it's looking pretty old these days. The glow-ip they're doing is much more minimal, and basically still leaves it looking a lot older than SS1 Remake. to It's not terrible by any means, but I wish they'd update it to something more like SS1 Remake's graphics. Lighting, shaders, etc.. Other than the graphics, it's probably not in so much need of a refresh... except maybe some rebalancing to make some of the character classes / skills less useless. Like Thief, it was hardly cutting edge graphics at release, so it doesn't solely rely on the graphics for its atmosphere. But updated ones would really help imho. But if it's the only option, it's still definitely worth playing. Hah, looking at these screenshots, I can tell you now what I prefer. Like you say, SS2 wasn't a looker on release. The Dark Engine wasn't a patch on the likes of idTech and Unreal but it lived up to it's name. Such beautiful darkness. Everything was cloaked in shadow. Coupled with the fucking tremendous sound design meant it didn't have to look as pretty, because the immersion was next level. You were there. It was terrifying.
I played SS2 last year on my laptop with the reBirth mods and it's still immersive as fuck.
So yeah. I'm with quad. I want it just a bit smoothed out with some higher res rextures and as far as I'm concerend, I'm back shitting myself on the Von Braun again.
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 9:16:20 GMT
And if you altered either the ss2 sound effects or music at all, and I really mean at all, it would instantly ruin the game.
Even the ambient engine hum that you hear all the time is fucking magnificent for fucks sake!
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 9:21:46 GMT
And if you altered either the ss2 sound effects or music at all, and I really mean at all, it would instantly ruin the game. Even the ambient engine hum that you hear all the time is fucking magnificent for fucks sake! Yes! As much as Nightdive would do a great job, this is specifically one of those super rare times that I genuinely wouldn't want anything different. At all. I suppose it's how a lot of people are feeling about the Silent Hill 2 remake, wheras I'm not too fussed about that and am looking forward to it. SS2 is as sacred to me as SH2 is for others. I just don't want a fucking thing changed (barring the res update). I can see that others would welcome it, but not this cat. This cat likes his milk the way it is. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 25, 2024 9:31:46 GMT
But if nothing is different, what's the point?
(except allowing console users to play it)
iirc playing through with some of the character classes was pretty unbalanced/frustrating as well.
FWIW: I agree on the music and sfx, etc..
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 9:36:10 GMT
But if nothing is different, what's the point? (except allowing console users to play it)iirc playing through with some of the character classes was pretty unbalanced/frustrating as well. FWIW: I agree on the music and sfx, etc.. That sir, is the point! I just want to play it on my telly. That's all. |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 9:43:27 GMT
Yeah it's just the big telly thing really. Everything else mustn't be touched!
I can see that when I get some time off I'm going to use some makeshift thing to put my keyboard and mouse on so I can use the steam link and put it on the big telly.
I've only ever done that a couple of times before. I'll have to check how it looks!
Oo, I'm excited now!
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 25, 2024 9:43:41 GMT
As I said yesterday, re the Dead Space remake, I think making games more widely available is reason enough for ports/remasters/remakes to exist. How much needs to be added or changed is a whole other can of tuna!
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Post by wunty on Jul 25, 2024 10:01:01 GMT
Either way. Can I just say how happy I am that these games are even on the table for discussion. Nightdive truly do gods work.
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Post by quadfather on Jul 25, 2024 10:17:42 GMT
Yeah exactly - at least we can have these conversations and play them in whatever form they're in, for sure.
I want to play ss2 now.
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