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Post by Dougs on Dec 22, 2021 8:22:55 GMT
Agreed. It's by far the best Spidey film.
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Post by Reviewer on Dec 22, 2021 8:56:57 GMT
Yeah it’s kid friendly but just as good for grown ups. Maybe not great for really young given how much is going on at times. My 5 year old managed about 15 minutes but she doesn’t like anyone being mean to anyone in film/tv.
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Post by Vandelay on Dec 22, 2021 8:57:19 GMT
I posted a while back that Garfield would save MJ to close an arc for his character, but it was still a really nice moment when it came. On No Way Home: I really liked that moment, mainly because the death of Gwen in Amazing Spiderman really annoyed me. She comes in to prove she can hold her own and gets killed for doing it. Although MJ still needs Spiderman to save her here, at least it felt a little like correcting a wrong.
Agree that there wasn't really much that we didn't know in advance. It was quite expected that Maguire and Garfield would appear, despite everyone's denials. |
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Dec 22, 2021 11:28:31 GMT
Hawkeye having his head punched clean off by Wilson Fisk was a surprise. is what I’d be saying if Netflix had made this instead of Disney. It was kind of weird seeing VD doing his masterfully twitching psychopath with very PG material. That bit where he is blown up and comically unscathed, not even his shirt is burned, was just… they are unashamedly a cartoon now.
Hopefully he isn’t shot dead though because I’d prefer to see him again. |
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Dec 22, 2021 13:42:01 GMT
Hawkeye having his head punched clean off by Wilson Fisk was a surprise. It was a more surprising episode than I expected, though not shocking or anything. However it continued the MCU TV show tradition of the end not being as good as the rest, despite being flashy/expensive - spoilers for the entire episode:
1) Wilson Fisk is clearly superhuman in this, getting hit by a car (hard enough to blow the airbags), multiple close-range explosions, and so on and just walking away.
2) He seemingly gets shot but superhero rules are "unless there's a body shown, they're not dead", and I think the MCU has scrupulously followed this so far. We didn't even see if it was him getting shot or someone shooting Maya/Echo. If they really brought him back to shoot him, after WandaVision brought in Quicksilver just to make a dick joke, we can basically assume anything not clearly MCU is just there for Disney to shit on. But I doubt it due to the lack of a body.
3) Kate's mum wasn't as bad as she initially seemed, wonder if they'll be as realistic as The Incredibles 2 and admit that she'll basically skate because she's a rich person. There's absolutely no realistic way they could get her for the murder of Armand, because a taped confession from an illegal/covert video camera with no chain of evidence will never work in a New York court (or really any court).
4) The boyfriend really was just an idiot who was good with a sword. That was er... weird. Doesn't really explain his behaviour at the auction (including his thievery).
5) The musical (including the post-credits bit) is really weird, because Ant-Man wasn't at the Battle of New York, and indeed, the Battle of New York shouldn't even have taken place in the same way in the post-Endgame, post-Loki, post-blip universe. If we weren't in the middle of a bunch of multiverse stuff, I'd read it as the musical taking artistic licence, here I feel like it suggests something weirder is happening. It's not like the showrunners won't have realized that they "made it weird" lol.
6) Maya/Echo was less murderous than expected re: her boyfriend. After all that I expected her to try to kill him, but she gave him multiple chances to run away with her before he tried to kill her.
7) I understand nothing about this dumb watch. Why does Hawkeye's wife like it so much? Does she even really know the Avengers except when they hung out that one time? Is that a SHIELD symbol on the back? Am I supposed to understand something here or is it just an ugly Rolex?
Other thoughts - this was actually kind of one of the weaker episodes in some ways because it was very action-y, and even the emotional parts were couched in action-y stuff. Lots of good one-liners and so on, but like every single MCU show except maybe Loki, it felt like it slumped a bit into a "typical Marvel ending" with a lot of unnecessary fighting which wasn't very exciting and a slightly limp resolution (Wanda gets off lightly, Kate's mum is unbelievably arrested, Falcon/Cap2 gives a magical speech which solves world peace, etc.).
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Dec 22, 2021 14:33:39 GMT
The watch in Hawkeye is an indication that Barton’s wife is a retired SHIELD agent. There’s clues for (comic) book wankers that she’s a character called Mockingbird, who I otherwise known nothing about.
For casual audiences, it’s just to indicate that there’s more to Mrs Hawkeye. |
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Post by 😎 on Dec 22, 2021 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by oldskooldeano on Dec 22, 2021 17:22:18 GMT
Loved Hawkeye. Just a lot of fun really. It shows that the MCU can go on with a new generation. I’ve become a big Hailee Steinfield fan. Her and Jeremy Renner really worked well together.
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askew
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Post by askew on Dec 22, 2021 17:36:30 GMT
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Derblington
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Did you know I have a girlfriend
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Post by Derblington on Dec 22, 2021 17:37:43 GMT
Steinfield has been good in everything I’ve seen her in, even when the films haven’t been amazing. She’s a good voice actress too (Gwen Stacey in Spiderverse and Vi in Arcane). I need to get around to watching Dickinson on Apple.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 17:45:02 GMT
Yeah. No spoilers for Spider-Man included.
Would help if you watched the Disney Plus shows though. Wandavision and What If in particular. |
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Post by 😎 on Dec 22, 2021 18:13:50 GMT
DS2 stuff: I know the Lego set leak says that one eyed beast is Gargantos but that’s totally Shuma Gorath, right? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 18:15:39 GMT
Totally. His MvC theme popped in my head when I
first watched the trailer.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 22, 2021 18:28:54 GMT
DS2 stuff: I know the Lego set leak says that one eyed beast is Gargantos but that’s totally Shuma Gorath, right? Totally, I've played enough Marvel Vs Capcom 2 to know the design off by heart. |
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Post by KinkyMong on Dec 22, 2021 20:34:55 GMT
5) The musical (including the post-credits bit) is really weird, because Ant-Man wasn't at the Battle of New York, and indeed, the Battle of New York shouldn't even have taken place in the same way in the post-Endgame, post-Loki, post-blip universe.
He was there, technically, because of the time-heist in Endgame. I take that as someone catching a glimpse of him in the aftermath and his role being exaggerated by whoever made the musical.
Also, I believe Ant-Man was in the first incarnation of the Avengers in the comics, so it's probably a reference to that too. |
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Post by 😎 on Dec 22, 2021 21:21:44 GMT
I presumed it was there for another take of “that’s not what happened, they’re getting this all wrong” reactions from Clint but got cut from the episode.
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Post by brokenkey on Dec 22, 2021 22:26:36 GMT
I presumed it was there for another take of “that’s not what happened, they’re getting this all wrong” reactions from Clint but got cut from the episode. Clint says that antman wasn't there in the first episode. |
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Post by 😎 on Dec 22, 2021 22:27:20 GMT
Oh, well there we go.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Dec 23, 2021 0:51:51 GMT
I’m pretty sure it’s just meant to be pure comedy that they have Asian Ant-Man slotted in there.
Given the musical is specifically about Captain America and not The Avengers, that whole NYC Battle is probably not the beginning or end of it, just the most obvious excerpt for the writers to make fun of.
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Post by 😎 on Dec 23, 2021 1:21:13 GMT
Of course due to the internet being what it is you can guarantee there’ll be a hashtag campaign for Marvel to actually do an Avengers musical.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Dec 23, 2021 10:24:53 GMT
One thing I was not prepared to say is that overall I think Hawkeye is probably the best Marvel show Disney Plus has done so far. I think it just got it all right with intrigue, emotional beats, action while still keeping it light hearted. Great introduction for Kate Bishop. I didn't like the finale for Wandavision and Falcon and Winter Soldier nearly as much as this. And I don't even typically like Hawkeye. Do want to see more of Kate though, definitely someone that could easily carry the mantle going forward.
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Post by Reviewer on Dec 23, 2021 10:33:44 GMT
My only real criticism is some of the fight scenes were terrible - like on the ice rink and they got people with their bows it was too obvious that there was no contact.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Dec 23, 2021 10:36:42 GMT
They just hit them with invisible off screen arrows prob.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 27, 2021 8:28:10 GMT
Just finished Hawkeye. The final episode was good fun, but it was still kinda disappointing. It felt like there was a missing penultimate episode, and it seemed in a big rush to wrap up all its plots without really earning some of them. I think it suffered a bit from the ever-present MCU risk of focusing too much on introducing crossovers and other characters at the expense of concentrating on the current film/show. The Kingpin actor is great, but did something happen at the end of Daredevil to power him up? I get that the comics character is supposed to be massively tough and strong, but in DD he was still human, and in this he was basically Hulk. Plus, introducing him with only one episode to go seemed like a mistake. They should have given him at least a couple of episodes to be menacing and smart. Especially for those who didn't watch DD. They left themselves very little time to wrap up (a) the Yelena plot, (b) the Mother plot, (c) the Kingpin plot, (d) the Echo & Kazi plot and then they basically had to wrap them all up at once Phantom Menace style. Which meant they all basically wrapped up neatly and exactly as expected. I mean, the Echo & Kazi one basically wrapped up entirely separately from Hawkeye(s) and didn't really amount to anything. The action was very cool at some points, though I feel like the ice-rink fight wasn't as good as some of the fights from previous episodes. Could have done with a bit more actual sharpshooting and a bit less close combat and shooting people 3 feet away. Plus the infinitely respawning Tracksuits(tm) were a bit ridiculous. The side plot with the Larpers didn't really amount to much, especially as they had no real impact at the end. The fact that at the end of all that, the 'will they get back for xmas?' question basically amounted to 'yes, they just drive up no problem' was a bit of a 'huh' moment. On the plus side, I loved that Jack turned out to just be a weird random guy who's really good as sword fighting, and seemed quite happy even though his fiance turned him in to the police a little earlier. Jack++. I'm not sure the Yelena side plot was needed, but I loved her scenes with Kate. Imho they should have cut either her plot or the Echo plot and introduced Kingpin earlier though. The entire Watch plot amounted to very little, given it was just a Shield watch. I assume it had some great meaning to Comics fans, but it was a bit of an anticlimax to me. Half way through the season I thought I'd figured out the twist. The 'best shot Clint never took' wasn't going to be Natasha, it was going to be another Black Widow which would be Laura, and the watch would expose her. And at the end when Yelena was about to kill Clint, Laura would show up and kick her ass. I still think my idea was better.  Hailee Steinfeld was absolutely awesome in this, and Jeremy Renner was great too. I love their chemistry and I'd be quite happy to watch them just hang out and banter for 6 episodes. Just rewatched Bumblebee and she's great in that too. Also just watched Spider-verse and I think she was Gwen in that too. |
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neems
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Post by neems on Dec 27, 2021 10:35:50 GMT
I know it's not fashionable but I always quite liked MCU Hawkeye, who quite clearly is superhuman. He's so far beyond 'good at archery' that it makes no sense.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 31, 2021 2:30:17 GMT
So, which is better, Shang Chi or No Way Home?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 3:28:06 GMT
No Way Home, hands down
actually, let me qualify that.
If you enjoy Marvel films in general, and in particular the Spider-Man character, since it is a Spidey film, without question No Way Home.
If the reason you enjoyed Shang Chi was because you aren't a Marvel fan and it felt different to you, Shang Chi might still be the one for you.
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Dec 31, 2021 8:09:26 GMT
Shang Chi is fun, a good MCU film. No Way Home is almost an Important Movie, if we can have those in comic book movies. If it weren’t for the pandemic it would probably be nudging Endgame / Avatar for most money made ever.
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Post by simple on Dec 31, 2021 8:56:57 GMT
Eternals coming to D+ in a couple of weeks.
I’ve not seen it but it feels the least MCU-y they’ve put out for awhile
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Dec 31, 2021 12:43:40 GMT
It’s notable as the first boring MCU movie.
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