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Post by clemfandango on Sept 22, 2021 22:02:57 GMT
Some of the hyperbole from us United fans in this thread is incredible. Sancho didn't look "shit". The game wasn't great and I'm disappointed we lost but, tonight is the night to experiment and it was a lot of players that haven't played much. West ham got their early goal and held on, fair play to them (and broke with a threat when we were going completely balls out to win which was the right thing to do). It wasn't a great night but I do think we were the better team albeit without carrying enough threat. No team is great 100% of the time. I'm far from an Ole apologist so I hope nobody tries to throw that at me, but some of you, particularly over the last couple of weeks are so over the top. We are now at 7 games played, 5 bad performances and out of our first competition. I’d argue the Newcastle result was flattering too. That on top of us showing zero progress in the way we play on the pitch. But yes let’s just be proper United fans and back the team and manager to come good. Myself moaning isn’t just based on this season. I’ve said it before the turning point for me was sheffield United at home last season when we lost 1-2. I saw ole had no ideas/tactics/plan, he was like a rabbit in the headlights with a Stupid grin on his face. We will win nothing with this charlatan. Just buying better and better players isn’t the solution. |
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Post by retro74 on Sept 22, 2021 22:04:12 GMT
It’s the League Cup, no one at United gives two shits about it
Doesn’t effect Solskjaer in the slightest. The CL defeat was a million times more damaging but he can still fix that
However if he doesn’t get out of the group he will be in deep trouble
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Post by mikew1985 on Sept 22, 2021 22:12:58 GMT
It’s the League Cup, no one at United gives two shits about it Doesn’t effect Solskjaer in the slightest. The CL defeat was a million times more damaging but he can still fix that However if he doesn’t get out of the group he will be in deep trouble Agreed. It's a huge year for Ole but this game isn't the end of the world. Is there a concerning pattern to the way we've played at times this year? Yea but also lots of exciting players and lots of time for things to hopefully improve. |
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JYM60
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Post by JYM60 on Sept 22, 2021 22:15:56 GMT
Yeah not a big deal at all.
Whenever Pep can put in KDB, Foden, Mahrez and Torres, all of whom didn't start the weekend, nobody else is winning the League cup.
It's a decent chance to run out fringe players. Ours are average at best, as we already knew. Greenwood and Bruno looked in a different league when they came in.
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Post by retro74 on Sept 22, 2021 22:17:50 GMT
His demeanour doesn’t help. When things aren’t going well it looks like he’s just letting it go and only changes things when something bad has happened and it’s too late
I don’t want us to get rid of him but he needs to adapt and understand issues early and make changes to address them - whether that’s with tactics or personnel
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Post by ryder35 on Sept 23, 2021 6:24:54 GMT
Martial didn't help Sancho tonight, if he wasn't standing right next to him he was stood still up front. Really sad to see how absolute toilet Tony is at the moment. Thought he started tonight ok, just faded without a whimper. Can we make toilet Tony his new nickname? |
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Post by Dougs on Sept 23, 2021 6:26:47 GMT
I'd have loved to see what Wenger could have done for Martial. He seemed like an almost carbon copy of Thierry. Maybe that's being a bit optimistic.
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Post by ryder35 on Sept 23, 2021 6:27:40 GMT
Look on the bright side at least he didn’t do the usual and bring on matic
and lingard at the 1 hour mark this time… oh wait
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Post by mikew1985 on Sept 23, 2021 6:29:25 GMT
He no longer even looks fast let alone pacey. There's still a very good player in there but he's allowing his career to just pass him by. I'd love to see him turn it around but it's looking less and less likely.
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Post by mikew1985 on Sept 23, 2021 6:31:56 GMT
Look on the bright side at least he didn’t do the usual and bring on matic and lingard at the 1 hour mark this time… oh wait You mean Sundays match winning substitutions? Like I'm all for criticising Ole for being slow to act at times but if you gave him pelters for his subs against Young boys, you have to give him credit for them against West ham. |
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Post by ryder35 on Sept 23, 2021 6:36:21 GMT
I was more being sarcastic towards the moaners on here who were going on about those subs to be honest. Can see that it was not obvious mind  |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 23, 2021 7:48:19 GMT
I'd have loved to see what Wenger could have done for Martial. He seemed like an almost carbon copy of Thierry. Maybe that's being a bit optimistic. The main difference was mentality, Martial doesn't seem all that strong mentally and just completely capitulates when things aren't going right for him. |
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Post by snackplissken on Sept 23, 2021 8:03:55 GMT
That's why you need a good manager to sort that out. The Wenger/Fergie managers are a rare breed in this generation of managers. Just think of how many attacking players Wenger put through their paces. I'd even argue Ozil got shitter when papa Wengz left.
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Post by Dougs on Sept 23, 2021 8:08:23 GMT
Aye. Both of them managed to get good tunes out of some distinctly average players, let alone the ones with lots of talent.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Sept 23, 2021 8:22:51 GMT
It's easy to say the subs worked at the weekend, and of course they technically did. But let's be honest. That was just a world class goal from Jesse Lingard. The changes Ole made hardly dramatically upped the tempo or opportunities we created. It was still as pedestrian as it was before the subs, someone just dug us out with a worldie.
If you want to see some proper 'the changes made the difference' stuff, look no further than how Chelsea came out against Spurs in the second half. Living in a pure fantasy land if we think the two are even comparable.
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Post by mikew1985 on Sept 23, 2021 8:47:52 GMT
It's easy to say the subs worked at the weekend, and of course they technically did. But let's be honest. That was just a world class goal from Jesse Lingard. The changes Ole made hardly dramatically upped the tempo or opportunities we created. It was still as pedestrian as it was before the subs, someone just dug us out with a worldie. If you want to see some proper 'the changes made the difference' stuff, look no further than how Chelsea came out against Spurs in the second half. Living in a pure fantasy land if we think the two are even comparable. You mean, how mastermind Tuchel brought on arguably the best pressing defensive Central midfield player in the world to get control of the midfield? Masterful decision making. Give me a break. It was the correct decision but hardly a difficult one. |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Sept 23, 2021 9:09:09 GMT
The idea we don't have the players in the squad who could make such a difference under the same sort of tutelage is equally ridiculous. I'm not even strictly Ole Out but the free pass he gets for dire football we play after our last 3 managers is beyond ironic. It was because of a right winger and another central defender last season, and now the goalposts have moved and it's all because of defensive mid. It'll be Fred the Red's fault when we end up with Declan Rice next summer.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 23, 2021 9:14:32 GMT
It's the formation that's a big part of the issue, you essentially end up with 6 defensive players on the pitch and only one of them (Shaw, and he doesn't consistently) meaningfully adds anything to the attack. It makes us quite easy to shut out of the game if you sit back.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Sept 23, 2021 9:21:00 GMT
I also saw the thing trotted out last season that we play this 'double pivot' because our defence is a weak link and they need the extra protection. Okay, fine. But we've signed Raphael fucking Varane so we'll stop that now, right? Of course not, because he's terrified of losing.
If it was so crucial that we grab a DM to make everything a cohesive whole and magically fix us, then that's no less of a mistake than the performances on the pitch when we've been fine throwing money at people for other players this summer.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 23, 2021 9:21:51 GMT
Yeah, I think you could play Deschamps or Matthaus in that pivot and it'd still be dull as fuck.
It seems to be going slowly out of fashion, except with Ole and Southgate.
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Post by ryder35 on Sept 23, 2021 9:48:49 GMT
So many armchair managers out there. I am sure Ole is a better manager than any of us. Not saying he is amazing by the way but any professional manager knows more about the game and their squad than any of us.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 23, 2021 9:57:40 GMT
Then we should all stop discussing football and accept whatever shit is thrown out to us every week.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Sept 23, 2021 10:26:28 GMT
Like I say, all I'm really saying is this isn't any better than it has been the last 3 years, despite having a far, far better squad. It's very clear by eye it hasn't really got much better. That people are suddenly getting very angry about that is quite ironic.
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Post by ryder35 on Sept 23, 2021 10:34:45 GMT
Like I say, all I'm really saying is this isn't any better than it has been the last 3 years, despite having a far, far better squad. It's very clear by eye it hasn't really got much better. That people are suddenly getting very angry about that is quite ironic. Who's getting angry? We all like to be armchair managers, myself included but I am not sure the manager is our biggest problem. For instance who else could Ole bring off the bech at the moment to change a match? It is great that Tuchel can make the amazing tactical decision to bring on a world class holding midfielder on whrn they go down to 10 but we just don't have the talent in depth to change games to that extent. |
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Post by harrypalmer on Sept 23, 2021 10:42:04 GMT
Indeed. Who'd have thunk bringing on the world's greatest central midfielder at halftime would be a good idea.
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Post by clemfandango on Sept 23, 2021 10:56:13 GMT
I've noticed a strong whiff of fan elitism rearing its head at united (not just on this forum). The fans backing Ole seem to think they are somehow more of a proper united fan and understand the game better and love the club more. Its all very tribal and quite frankly idiotic based on the shite we have to witness on the pitch week in week out.
But yeah we got 2nd place with no title challenge at all last season playing dull as fuck football so that's progress...
Like I said before simply buying better footballers each transfer window will only paper over the cracks for so long
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Gl3n
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Post by Gl3n on Sept 23, 2021 11:00:18 GMT
'Proper' united fans, those who actually live or are from Manchester presumably? Less than 1% of the fanbase I'd guess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 11:02:27 GMT
I hate seeing fans turn on each other like this.
You're all equally awful in your own way guys, it's time to unite.
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Post by clemfandango on Sept 23, 2021 11:03:14 GMT
'Proper' united fans, those who actually live or are from Manchester presumably? Less than 1% of the fanbase I'd guess. But even Uniteds 1% (of which I am one) is more than most other teams. I'd say uniteds 1% is split 50/50 on Ole, its the 50 percent who are backing him that have the whiff of fan elitism... |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Sept 23, 2021 11:06:13 GMT
It's just the players! We just don't have the players to change the flow of games against the likes of Southampton and West Ham!
Apart from when it was a manager I didn't like, then it was the manager's fault for those things!
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