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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 13:40:30 GMT
It will get announced after the cup final no matter the result. And there's so much paper talk about potential managers that hasn't been shut down. Yea probably. I hope not though. Edit: Re Paper talk, I've seen nothing from any of the journalists worth listening to so not sure which papers that is in reference to
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on May 23, 2024 13:43:59 GMT
Given that Van Gaal was sacked the day after winning the FA Cup, I wouldnt rule anything out. Looked it up, we scored 49 goals that season. And I thought we were at our worst this season, even though the league position would suggest so.
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 13:54:40 GMT
Oh I think it's a distinct possibility as I said. LVG knew after the final whistle of the FA Cup, it sort of ruined the victory tbh but there was really no mitigating factor for LVG though, it was so dull and you couldn't really see why it would improve, he had his full team but just couldn't ever really get things going well enough.
I can understand people might feel that way about ETH (though it's certainly not been dull!) and give short shrift to the injuries - often all the whilst stating we need to gut the team. I get where everyone is coming from re injuries as everyone does have to deal with them but they've just been in the areas that make the biggest difference to us and we just couldn't cover up for it.
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Post by cristar on May 23, 2024 14:40:38 GMT
See, I don't think we were brilliant last season, I think we were very very average and massively carried by a firing in form Rashford. Without his goals we'd have been as poor as this season probably. What has happened to him is another question probably.
But yeah, I also will not be surprised if ETH doesn't get sacked. He definitely could and probably should be, but also has one year left and the new group might just wait that out and see who is available next year. Alonso/McKenna/etc maybe. Obviosuly there's a risk of another season as shit as this one, and with the rumoured spending budget being £35million + any sale, it's really not looking good.
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 14:50:36 GMT
Oh you think we would have been worse without the player who played brilliantly last season?
Slight snarkiness aside. Why was Rashford enabled to be better last season?
A better structure, more concentrated possession higher up the pitch. Less everyone being on your back when you lose the ball because we were able to recover it more often. We were far from perfect last season but in terms of a start for a manager it was very good and showed mostly positive signs. We had a very solid structure from LB to RCB which has been inverted this season to RB being our only good position in the back line.
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 15:07:59 GMT
See, I don't think we were brilliant last season, I think we were very very average and massively carried by a firing in form Rashford. Without his goals we'd have been as poor as this season probably. What has happened to him is another question probably. But yeah, I also will not be surprised if ETH doesn't get sacked. He definitely could and probably should be, but also has one year left and the new group might just wait that out and see who is available next year. Alonso/McKenna/etc maybe. Obviosuly there's a risk of another season as shit as this one, and with the rumoured spending budget being £35million + any sale, it's really not looking good. I can't see the spending budget being that limited this season again. We should have well over 100m + sales. It won't be unlimited but generally the reporting seems to indicated a half decent budget. The issue is more likely to be the amount of competition for players
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Post by cristar on May 23, 2024 15:18:04 GMT
What do you mean without? He has been playing most of the season. Well I guess it depends on your definition of playing. He's been on the pitch most of the season anyway...
I know you are playing the injury card, but that only goes so far. We have been hammered by teams who put out reserve squads this season. We got stomped by a Newcastle team featuring a reserve back 4 and keeper, who were playing out of position or hadn't played for 18 months.
You can't get outplayed by teams like Burnley, Brentford and Bournmouth and say, "well we were missing a few players". No, it was just shit and far from good enough. Even if you do blame injuries, maybe ETH should have made better transfers. Malacia was out start of the season, and you're telling me he said, "yeah, we can rely on Luke Shaw to play the entire season. It's Mason Mount that we really need". Not to mention sending Regulon back to Spurs.
Edit: re spending budget: Yeah I'm not sure but I did read that somewhere. Might not be true. Though no Europe will put a dent in the budget for sure.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on May 23, 2024 15:26:15 GMT
mikew1985 While I admire your confidence that ETH can steer this vessel right (given time and money) and to a certain degree I shared this enthusiasm when he was hired, I'm not sure any more. IMHO, his Ajax was not only a team properly structured, but one raised from the ground up under the same principles and guidance, where players were not slotted in from the outside but they grew up around each other with the sole purpose to perform well as a team and then sold for max profit (so a new group of players would arrive to continue the thread). It is entire possible that ETH is an excellent manager for another team not ManU. But I couldn't offer any suggestion on who should replace him though, I don't have a clue...
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on May 23, 2024 15:26:53 GMT
Unbelievable.
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Post by simple on May 23, 2024 15:57:43 GMT
Isn’t that match fixing?
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deez
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Post by deez on May 23, 2024 16:05:19 GMT
I'm guessing it's that video of him just hanging about when he was being subbed off.
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 16:08:16 GMT
What do you mean without? He has been playing most of the season. Well I guess it depends on your definition of playing. He's been on the pitch most of the season anyway... I know you are playing the injury card, but that only goes so far. We have been hammered by teams who put out reserve squads this season. We got stomped by a Newcastle team featuring a reserve back 4 and keeper, who were playing out of position or hadn't played for 18 months. You can't get outplayed by teams like Burnley, Brentford and Bournmouth and say, "well we were missing a few players". No, it was just shit and far from good enough. Even if you do blame injuries, maybe ETH should have made better transfers. Malacia was out start of the season, and you're telling me he said, "yeah, we can rely on Luke Shaw to play the entire season. It's Mason Mount that we really need". Not to mention sending Regulon back to Spurs. Edit: re spending budget: Yeah I'm not sure but I did read that somewhere. Might not be true. Though no Europe will put a dent in the budget for sure. I quite literally meant it's not very surprising if you take out one of our best players from the season he played well in, the season woudl look significantly worse. It's a bit of an odd argument tbh. If you take Rodri out of the City team, they're much worse. If KDB wasn't there for the run in, they might not have won the league... good player playing well = boosting your season is not very surprising. Re the left back situation, having read in depth on Malacia, he was not supposed to be out for the whole season, it's a completely bizarre scenario. On top of that, he had just come off a season where shaw was basically available for the majority of it. Left back certainly wasn't the top of anyone's list going into the transfer window. Add to that the shitshow around Reguilon which he doesn't really take any blame for, he was told by the medical staff in early winter both Shaw and Malacia would be fit for the second half of the season. The Mount signing is one that looked questionable at the time. I could see a way for it to make sense in theory but we've never had the structure to see if it worked this season and he's been a complete waste of money given his injury record. He still would have expected to sign a good CB even with the mount signing. The clubs inability to gather value for some of it's playing assets is fucking pathetic and meant we couldn't do that. I get the arguments hand waving away the injuries, I think you're entitled to take that position just as I'm entitled to take mine; I understand where you and others are coming from I just disagree with it. I would not be so forgiving next season and I don't think it's possible for injuries to be as comically chronic next season.
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Post by cristar on May 23, 2024 16:17:48 GMT
It's an odd thing to say taking out Rodri and KDB. Like you said, they were out and City weren't as good, but when they came back they were good again. Rashford hasn't been out, he's just been terrible all season. Those two things are not comparable. I think we know good players = better performances. But why are we having good players one season = bad players the next season? Can throw a few in there: Rashford, Casemiro, Antony, etc. I don't want to hear it's because a couple defenders have been injured
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 16:18:47 GMT
mikew1985 While I admire your confidence that ETH can steer this vessel right (given time and money) and to a certain degree I shared this enthusiasm when he was hired, I'm not sure any more. IMHO, his Ajax was not only a team properly structured, but one raised from the ground up under the same principles and guidance, where players were not slotted in from the outside but they grew up around each other with the sole purpose to perform well as a team and then sold for max profit (so a new group of players would arrive to continue the thread). It is entire possible that ETH is an excellent manager for another team not ManU. But I couldn't offer any suggestion on who should replace him though, I don't have a clue... I think confidence is the wrong word. I am certainly less confident than I was last summer. I am just giving him a fair amount of leeway for this season. History is hugely colouring my outlook too. Basically sackign him now = what we've done every other time and we've ended up in almost the exact same place 2 years later every single time. If you look at the number of players we would all consider to be poor or lacking for a number of years that he's had to rely on this season + the number he's moved on I think these are legitimately big issues. Look at the LB situation. The CB situation and the situation up front. He was left with Martial and Weghorst last season and a promising but very young Hojlund this season and basically nobody else. Then you've had the complete shit show around the entire club all season. Off pitch nonsense things he's had to deal with this season alone (including last summer); - Arnold trying to bring Greenwood back - Antony accusations - Constant rumour and speculation around the sale of the club for months - Completely unjustified Sancho bitchfest - Lack of certainty and investment due to the above - Continued Drawn out sales process - Eventual confirmation of the intention to sell to Ineos - Silly Rashford Belfast shite - Months more waiting for ratification - Complete ripping out of the entire football structure since Christmas - still ongoing (hopefully a good thing long term)
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 16:21:50 GMT
It's an odd thing to say taking out Rodri and KDB. Like you said, they were out and City weren't as good, but when they came back they were good again. Rashford hasn't been out, he's just been terrible all season. Those two things are not comparable. I think we know good players = better performances. But why are we having good players one season = bad players the next season? Can throw a few in there: Rashford, Casemiro, Antony, etc. I don't want to hear it's because a couple defenders have been injured Why are you talking about this season with Rashford? You brought up last season initially which is what I am responding to and the basis of the city example. I am saying if you take him out of the season he played well in it is not surprising that that season looks worse minus his goals. Like what even is your argument? you're making the same argument as me from what I can tell! Edit: Very kind of you to include Antony there publicly (though I would do the same myself, unfairly maligned but did have a decent 1st campaign imo)
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Post by Red_Bool on May 23, 2024 16:49:14 GMT
Who would have thought getting relegated with Burnley gets you the Bayern Munich job? It worked for Frank Rijkaard. Relegated with Sparta Rotterdam, became head coach of Barcelona 😁
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Post by cristar on May 23, 2024 16:59:05 GMT
It's an odd thing to say taking out Rodri and KDB. Like you said, they were out and City weren't as good, but when they came back they were good again. Rashford hasn't been out, he's just been terrible all season. Those two things are not comparable. I think we know good players = better performances. But why are we having good players one season = bad players the next season? Can throw a few in there: Rashford, Casemiro, Antony, etc. I don't want to hear it's because a couple defenders have been injured Why are you talking about this season with Rashford? You brought up last season initially which is what I am responding to and the basis of the city example. I am saying if you take him out of the season he played well in it is not surprising that that season looks worse minus his goals. Like what even is your argument? you're making the same argument as me from what I can tell! Edit: Very kind of you to include Antony there publicly (though I would do the same myself, unfairly maligned but did have a decent 1st campaign imo) Right I think I get you now. I didn't think we looked that good overall last season, but I did think we looked better When Antony was playing. He was awful this season though. I think even ETH sees that eventually.
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on May 23, 2024 17:53:18 GMT
I'm guessing it's that video of him just hanging about when he was being subbed off. Four separate incidents - mostly fouls with one for dissent, see the 2nd tweet here:
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Post by simple on May 23, 2024 17:54:17 GMT
Who would have thought getting relegated with Burnley gets you the Bayern Munich job? It worked for Frank Rijkaard. Relegated with Sparta Rotterdam, became head coach of Barcelona 😁 Frank had history at Barca though, Kompany was a Hamburg man.
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deez
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Post by deez on May 23, 2024 18:27:36 GMT
I'm guessing it's that video of him just hanging about when he was being subbed off. Four separate incidents - mostly fouls with one for dissent, see the 2nd tweet here: They don't look that clear cut, but then I suppose it's based on betting patterns.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on May 23, 2024 18:31:44 GMT
Wow, Paul Scholes would be embarrassed by some of those Paqueta challenges.
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Post by baihu1983 on May 23, 2024 18:40:15 GMT
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Post by mikew1985 on May 23, 2024 19:06:40 GMT
Literally just saw that, now that kind of thing being reported would obviously lead me to lean more that it's not looking good for the manager. Quite likely Bye bye Eth I suppose. Great to see there's still leaks a plenty to be found!
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on May 23, 2024 19:10:44 GMT
Really embarrasing that this is coming about because of Brighton and Chelsea showing interest. Wouldn't be the first time we've been led down a path.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2024 19:30:22 GMT
Or it's been in place for a while and it's getting out because they're interest. Which happens a lot.
ETH was never surviving, even if he had a half decent season imo.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on May 23, 2024 20:00:50 GMT
If that's genuinely the sort of move they are looking to make it's at least good to know early that they have no idea what they are doing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2024 20:32:41 GMT
That's the spirit
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Post by simple on May 23, 2024 20:42:03 GMT
I know jobs like Chelsea or United don’t come along every season* but if you were McKenna faced with Brighton or two colossal long term trash fires the sane choice feels like Brighton, right? * lol
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Post by Syrette on May 23, 2024 21:02:35 GMT
Doesn't bode well for Paqueta.
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hicksy
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Post by hicksy on May 23, 2024 21:11:50 GMT
Or Porchetta.
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