hicksy
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Post by hicksy on Nov 3, 2023 8:41:54 GMT
So the future is sitting on our arses letting AI do everything for us according to Elon.
Radiohead you are not.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 8:46:32 GMT
I mean, he's right. Kind of. Isnt the goal of all human endeavour to free us from the shackles of work and attain the freedom to do whatever we want?
Its the capitalist/communist convergence, the star trek utopia where money is useless. His/people like him's problem is that when we are equalised they still need a way to show they are better than us.
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hicksy
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Post by hicksy on Nov 3, 2023 9:44:41 GMT
The chalenge is that for a large portion of our lives our energy levels are such that I believe we need activity and to a degree work within a social structure to have healthy lives.
I fear for a breakdown in social structure where there is a huge deduction in available jobs and the low level poverty that will inevitably come with it.
If money and capitalism could be removed entirely and all members of society would be looked after then fine but that chances of that happening? Less than extinction sadly imo…
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Post by Fake_Blood on Nov 3, 2023 10:00:17 GMT
Did Star Trek ever address what happens with people that just don’t feel like doing anything? I mean I probably couldn’t be bothered to come in to work if I had a replicator at home.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 10:03:16 GMT
Its an interesting debate. I firmly do not believe that work gives you purpose. I dont think our lives would lose meaning and direction if we didnt have to get up in the morning to do a job. I'd quit tomorrow if I won the lottery.
But, yeah, there is going to be that horrific transition period where The Powers That Be fuckheadedly ignore the fact people are no longer able to work to any real capacity but refuse to consider any kind of transitional UBI.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 10:04:51 GMT
Did Star Trek ever address what happens with people that just don’t feel like doing anything? I mean I probably couldn’t be bothered to come in to work if I had a replicator at home. Its semi-hand waved away with the fact that being freed from having to work, people do what they want to do and strive to be their best at it.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Nov 3, 2023 10:05:26 GMT
I personally like my job, it gives me quite a bit of personal satisfaction to help people as part of it. Obviously I know that other people don't have that kind of relationship with work, but I'd definitely miss it.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 10:13:47 GMT
I dont mind my job, I even occasionally enjoy it but I wouldnt shed a tear if I retired tomorrow.
The difference is that if I didnt have that 'shit, I need to pay the rent. what am I good at?' moment in my 20s, I could have taken the time to find something I actually enjoy and have a passion for rather than just working to survive.
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Nov 3, 2023 10:16:10 GMT
I dont mind my job, I even occasionally enjoy it but I wouldnt shed a tear if I retired tomorrow. The difference is that if I didnt have that 'shit, I need to pay the rent. what am I good at?' moment in my 20s, I could have taken the time to find something I actually enjoy and have a passion for rather than just working to survive. You mean we could've had a Bongo autobiography if Musk had his way earlier?
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Post by drhickman1983 on Nov 3, 2023 10:20:56 GMT
There are things that would I would much rather spend my time doing, creative stuff like drawing, creating, that would give my life purpose enough.
Unfortunately I'm just too mentally knackered to do anything constructive after work. Some people manage it but I've tried and struggle massively, I just want to switch off after work. Sometimes during work too.
I would find ample things to do if I didn't have to work to pay bills. My job is not important at all in providing a purpose.
I'd retire tomorrow if it was feasible, but it's not and it's potentially looking unlikely ever.
I feel sad now.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 10:27:19 GMT
You mean we could've had a Bongo autobiography if Musk had his way earlier? There is a sliding door universe where I fully committed to Flower Arranging and wrote several best selling tomes on the subject, yes.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Nov 3, 2023 10:46:57 GMT
I’ve been on a full career break for all of 2023. Just starting to put something together for next year which hopefully means if it works I only need to work for 6 of the 12 months per year.
This year has been amazing and has gone so fast, not been bored for a single day. Not sure exactly what I have been doing though, but it’s great. But expensive.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Nov 3, 2023 10:48:34 GMT
I personally like my job, it gives me quite a bit of personal satisfaction to help people as part of it. Obviously I know that other people don't have that kind of relationship with work, but I'd definitely miss it. I'm exactly the same, I enjoy my job, I'm helping people and I get lots of thanks. I doubt I'd come in if they didn't pay me though.
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Post by Syrette on Nov 3, 2023 10:51:08 GMT
I’ve been on a full career break for all of 2023. Just starting to put something together for next year which hopefully means if it works I only need to work for 6 of the 12 months per year. This year has been amazing and has gone so fast, not been bored for a single day. Not sure exactly what I have been doing though, but it’s great. But expensive. Colour me jealous.
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technoish
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Post by technoish on Nov 3, 2023 10:54:33 GMT
I also have no worries about being bored while not working.... there is so much I don't do that I would - music (playing and writing), reading, gaming, movies, gardening, DIY, fitness. I'm actually considering becoming stay at home dad.
I think almost all of my salary goes towards a nanny/housekeeper at 37 hrs a week at the moment (my post tax to their pre tax), and I could certainly do a better more efficient job than they do, and have a lot more time for myself and with the kids.
Means relying on the wife for pocket money though!!!
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Nov 3, 2023 12:04:35 GMT
Would definitely give up work tomorrow if I could. I would use that time to go back into studying or attempt to persue creative endeavours. I dabble quite a bit with game development and would love to have the time to actually make something (and AI would help make that easier!) Even just freeing up time to play more games, watch more films and read more books would be great, but it would also give opportunities to explore the world and go to museums, etc. I fully expect I would be healthier if I wasn't needing to sit at a desk for 35-40 hours a week too (I'm sure I lose weight when on holiday, despite eating richer food and a greater quantity, just because I'm on my feet for most of the day).
When someone says they wouldn't know how to fill their time if they didn't work I feel quite sorry for them. I'm sure it isn't the case for all, but that must mostly mean they have been so indoctrinated into the world of work being the thing that defines you that they can't even consider how you would live without it.
Ultimately, I'm sure AI could create our art and culture, it could care for people in need, and it could cook our food, but I also expect we will still appreciate the human touch in all those things and there will be plenty of endeavours for us to express ourselves.
There would likely be a transition though. If no one had to work, I expect there will be people that would transform into the humans in Wall-e and it likely would be a tough transition. Just listening to this topic on James O'Brien's show and someone has mentioned the good question about what would the insentive be for governments to provide healthcare and education if there is no need for a workforce.
We would need to transition our society into an altruistic one and I doubt we are in a place to do that in the foreseeable. Having said that, I would also expect the human race to quite quickly adapt (quickly in the grand scheme of things).
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Post by drhickman1983 on Nov 3, 2023 12:14:29 GMT
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your job providing meaning of it's something you enjoy.
I do feel sorry for the people who feel they would have no purpose in life, or would get bored, whilst working jobs they feel apathy for or dislike.
And frankly anybody who thinks everyone would just sit around doing nothing if unemployed is projecting massively.
The chances of an altruistic system of governance is pretty much nil currently though. It's like we've looked at Star Trek and Bladerunner and decided that the dystopia is the one we want.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Nov 3, 2023 12:33:56 GMT
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your job providing meaning of it's something you enjoy. I do feel sorry for the people who feel they would have no purpose in life, or would get bored, whilst working jobs they feel apathy for or dislike. And frankly anybody who thinks everyone would just sit around doing nothing if unemployed is projecting massively. The chances of an altruistic system of governance is pretty much nil currently though. It's like we've looked at Star Trek and Bladerunner and decided that the dystopia is the one we want. Totally. If you are doing something you love or are making a meaningful difference to people's lives then it certainly should give you meaning. For most people though, work really is just helping to fill the pockets of someone else (often, someone who doesn't really deserve it). I wouldn't necessarily say that someone that thinks everyone would be lazy if they didn't have work was projecting; more likely I think it shows the contempt they hold for others.
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Post by Dougs on Nov 3, 2023 13:43:16 GMT
I'm in exactly the same boat as nick. I quite enjoy my job, sometimes I get a great deal.of job satisfaction. But i can't wait to retire, and would definitely bin it if I won a substantial amount of cash. 10 years and counting to the former...
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Vortex
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Post by Vortex on Nov 3, 2023 13:55:35 GMT
I'm in exactly the same boat as nick. I quite enjoy my job, sometimes I get a great deal.of job satisfaction. But i can't wait to retire, and would definitely bin it if I won a substantial amount of cash. 10 years and counting to the former... This. I mostly enjoy, occasionally love my job, but if I had enough money to see me through the rest of my life, I'd be gone like a shot. Maybe it helps that I am nearing that light at the end of the tunnel too.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 3, 2023 15:36:25 GMT
I'm sticking with the plan to go into semi retirement around 50. Just part time work. When it was lockdown I got into running, I wrote some novels for my own amusement and started volunteering.
For people who think it requires a job to give you purpose in life, I both pity them and also hope they are the first to die when the inevitable happens.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 3, 2023 15:45:49 GMT
Right.
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Post by Dougs on Nov 3, 2023 15:48:00 GMT
That's the caring, sharing attitude of a volunteer right there.
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Post by Saul1138 on Nov 3, 2023 15:58:06 GMT
I fucking hate my job, and wish I had invested when I was younger. Then, when the inevitable collapses of the economy had happened, I wouldn’t have thought about retiring. But fashioned a way to end capitalism and this fucked up nightmare we are heading towards, or topped myself and wondering why I ended up in hell.
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Post by quadfather on Nov 3, 2023 16:05:17 GMT
I dont mind my job, I even occasionally enjoy it but I wouldnt shed a tear if I retired tomorrow. The difference is that if I didnt have that 'shit, I need to pay the rent. what am I good at?' moment in my 20s, I could have taken the time to find something I actually enjoy and have a passion for rather than just working to survive. Never too late to try anything at all. And if you don't even try at your age now, you obviously definitely won't get far with your project of choice!
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Post by quadfather on Nov 3, 2023 16:09:07 GMT
A friend of mine works for himself. He tried at a young age to do the office thing but he got sacked because it just didn't work for him. He just ignored the whole thing and put "a fucking lot" of hours and blood sweat and tears etc.
He basically now works from home, occasionally goes to his works premises, checks things are going OK, and then decides what to do with his day.
I'm completely envious and I wish I'd have had the foresight back then regarding a career choice but it's so easy to lulled into the sausage factory.
I talk to him about the way corporate works, and so does his missus and he just simply refuses point blank to even accommodate it.
And he owes me a pint.
Ffs.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 3, 2023 16:20:18 GMT
]Never too late to try anything at all. And if you don't even try at your age now, you obviously definitely won't get far with your project of choice! Topically, I’m too afraid of losing a steady paycheck to take a risk.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Nov 3, 2023 16:41:47 GMT
I like my job. I'm in no hurry to quit or retire and would quite happily keep doing it for as long as I need to. I'm not on mega bucks but I don't give a shit. I've never been financially motivated. Would I like more money? Doesn't everyone? Would it actually make me "happier" though? Erm. Nah. My happiness goes by what new thing I've achieved that day / week / month / year. My main requisite is having something new to learn all the time. Without that I go a bit loopy.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 3, 2023 17:08:18 GMT
I still love teaching, I wouldn't give it up completely but would definitely reduce my hours quite severely.
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Post by jeepers on Nov 3, 2023 17:36:23 GMT
If I could afford to quit work, I’d do it in a heartbeat. My job is fine - a fair bit of control over what I do, a mostly decent team to manage and I like design strategy as a career. But I’m there for the money and that’s it.
My purpose is my kids and my wife and having enough time to enjoy both. Everything else is a “because I have to”.
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