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Post by bichii2 on Jan 10, 2024 23:08:01 GMT
I really need to replay this. I loved it. So much fun..all the great combat of a nioh mixed with a sekiro with much less anger.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 10, 2024 23:31:47 GMT
I gotta be honest, having now also played the Niohs and the DLCs in all three, I still think Wo Long falls a bit short (even aside from frustrations with that one DLC boss)...
To their credit, the parry system is really nice, a less frustrating Sekiro as Bichii said just above (although putting it on the same button as the dodge is still a bit questionable IMO), and they did add quite a bit of QoL and nice mechanics in the DLCs, especially regarding Martial Arts... But there's still a few issues that don't really make sense when you remember it was released after both Niohs + DLCs.
The spell system is still mostly forgettable aside from like two spells per element and maybe a couple Metal debuffs (and even if the boss-drop spells are better, their drop rates and stat requirements go too far so I can't really confirm or deny that)
The basic weapon combos could still use a bit more variety that stayed locked to Martial Arts in the end
Consumables are also not nearly as interesting as they were in other games in the genre (not just Nioh in this case)
The loot system ended up being this weird hybrid of Souls and Nioh and it feels like it took the parts that were fine on their own but create issues together (for example, when combining Graces/set bonuses with the loot drop frequency of a Soulslike, all that does is make it harder for you to find what you want)
Then there's some more subjective stuff like the music, the endgame gameplay loop and such, but that's more down to personal preference than what I'd call a straight up issue.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 10, 2024 23:33:09 GMT
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great game! Final DLC boss moaning aside I think I'd rate it very close to Nioh 1 at the end of the day, if not equal. I just don't think it's their best.
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Post by bichii2 on Jan 10, 2024 23:43:22 GMT
Sekiro, BB and wo long for the most part get rid of the fluff. Just f'ing amazing games with amazing combat and boss fights. Wo long is not on the level of sekiro or BB but it has that lovely trait of binning most of the bs fat.
In elden ring, all dark souls games, nioh etc I use about 1% of the items and loot. It's all just noise that gets in the way.
Sekiro is just my katana and the enemies who will die. (with a sprinkle of my prosthetic arm abilities). I don't want all that loot or potion making or buffs and debuffs.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 10, 2024 23:55:27 GMT
I'm really enjoying Wo Long, but for me there's still too much "fluff" - the randomised loot, the weapon and armour upgrade system, the Five Phases level-ups, spells, martial arts, consumables, and so on.
It's pared back compared to Nioh, and even more so compared to Nioh 2... but then again, most games are!
If Sekiro was 'FromSoft does a character action game', Wo Long is much more of an RPG as far as I'm concerned.
Don't get me wrong: I like RPGs a lot, but one can have too much of a good thing in that regard (in my opinion, of course).
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 10, 2024 23:57:42 GMT
Anyway, I beat the Personification of Douchebaggery (or whatever that asshole's name was).
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 0:25:34 GMT
I feel like they could have gone either way with some systems (closer to Nioh or closer to Souls/Sekiro) and I'd have been fine with it either way tbh. The spell system, either trim out some of the fluff or make more spells useful. The loot, either make most equipment unique like in Souls (presumably the equipment passives would then be managed some other way instead of having to salvage passives from your drops, maybe like Bloodborne's runes?) or keep closer to Nioh... and so on.
As it is, it's a sort of hybrid of Souls and Nioh in a lot of its systems that, again, works well IMO, and I'm extremely ready for a potential Wo Long 2 and the upcoming Rise of the Ronin... but it could be better and, judging from how little it's being talked about nowadays relative to, say, Elden Ring or the Niohs, it unfortunately didn't really manage to grab either of the audiences it was (presumably) going for as much as those games did...
Even going by something like the care put into the various (community-made so it could be a good reflection of players' opinion) wikis, or achievement metrics, the quality of its wiki is much closer to Nioh 1 than 2 or Elden Ring, with the documentation for the DLC especially dropping off a cliff even harder than Nioh 1... And the DLC achievements as I got them, even for things like beating simple storyline bosses? Distressingly often, they don't even break into 1% ownership, it was like 0.5%, 0.2%, pretty sure a couple even went below 0.1... Maybe some of that was because of Xbox vs PS, but it's pretty clear that it just didn't make as much of an impact, and it's a shame.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 20:20:06 GMT
Fittingly enough, the Mezuki boss fight was the hardest thing in the game for me.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 21:55:50 GMT
Fittingly enough, the Mezuki boss fight was the hardest thing in the game for me. If this means you've beaten the final boss, congrats! That's 3/4 on the Team Ninja offers now (although I'm not sure how much interest you have in Stranger of Paradise, if any) Re: your spoiler, yeah, that was meant to be an intentionally difficult crossover mission, in the vein of the online missions in the Niohs. Haven't done it myself either...
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 22:57:14 GMT
Thanks, JuniorFE! Yes, I've done all the main battlefields; I also did all the sub-battlefields (except for Crouching Dragons' Battle Royale, which really doesn't sound like my cup of coffee). As for Stranger of Paradise... I don't know. As I said in my 'review' of Wo Long, I'm torn - 50% morbidly curious, given how dire it's meant to be in every respect save for gameplay, and 50% genuinely interested if the combat holds up. Have you played it?
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 22:59:19 GMT
Thanks, JuniorFE! Yes, I've done all the main battlefields; I also did all the sub-battlefields (except for Crouching Dragons' Battle Royale, which really doesn't sound like my cup of coffee). As for Stranger of Paradise... I don't know. As I said in my 'review' of Wo Long, I'm torn - 50% morbidly curious, given how dire it's meant to be in every respect save for gameplay, and 50% genuinely interested if the combat holds up. Have you played it? Not yet. I do want to at least try it as I've heard good things about the gameplay if not so much the story... And if you don't have any attachment to the very first Final Fantasy and its greater mythos it'll probably make even less sense 😅 If nothing else, you can find it pretty cheap nowadays AFAIK.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 23:10:59 GMT
Not yet. I do want to at least try it as I've heard good things about the gameplay if not so much the story... And if you don't have any attachment to the very first Final Fantasy and its greater mythos it'll probably make even less sense 😅 If nothing else, you can find it pretty cheap nowadays AFAIK.
I don't have any attachment to Final Fantasy games in general, never having played one!
If I were to check out the series in question, I sort of feel as though my first foray shouldn't involve a title that makes fans of the franchise shudder from head to toe, but... maybe?
It's only about £15 nowadays.
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Post by Danno on Jan 11, 2024 23:19:49 GMT
Did this get a physical release?
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 23:22:52 GMT
Wo Long? Yup - just over £20 at The Game Collection, too:
Stranger of Paradise? Also yup, although this one's only £15:
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