MolarAm🔵
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Bad at games
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 22:22:21 GMT
Sure you can create your own character (except in FO4, weirdly) That’s what the mirror’s for. Unless I’ve misunderstood your point  What I meant was, your character in FO4 is more a defined thing, with a defined background and a set voice actor. You're not a blank slate, which (if I correctly understand Bethesda fans) is a key appeal. It feels like they were trying to copy, say, Mass Effect. And doing it badly. |
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skalpadda
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 13, 2022 23:08:58 GMT
Even aside from the fixed backstory you also can't get away from your PC chasing after their kid whenever the opportunity presents itself and you kind of have to play the sad/angry dad/mom role if you want to follow the main story at all and interact with the main faction stories. Despite the somewhat similar "chase a relative" quest in FO3 is at least it lets you say "fuck Liam Neeson" and do your own thing throughout the game without dictating how you're supposed to feel about it.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 14, 2022 0:52:32 GMT
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jun 14, 2022 0:56:05 GMT
That gameplay trailer looks ok I guess, but it doesn't really inspire me.
It all looks very bland and generic, though I get that it's hard to show off a big open world rpg in a trailer.
I'm starting to think that the idea of setting it in a realistic near-future setting was a mistake. If I imagine exploring a bethesda space rpg I imagine lots of weird crazy aliens, strange alien worlds and structures etc.. a chance to let their imagination run wild.
But it seems it'll mostly be familiar locations and humans.
Maybe I'd be more excited about it if I hadn't tried both Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky in recent years and found both of them to be a lot more dull than I expected.
Hopefully there's more fun and weirdness than they've shown.
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aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Jun 14, 2022 1:51:50 GMT
They probably actually got that feedback that it was a weak part of Fallout 4. I found it jarring, immersion-breaking, that they set you up with this emotional hook to find your stolen baby, at least as urgent as Mass Effect 3’s “save earth from Reaper destruction while the Reapers are there” opening salvo, then expect you to pootle about in side quests (which also didn’t work for Mass Effect 3) AND base-building for Bot-NPCs fuckery. Having a voiced player character just set up their rest of their writing against Mass Effect and The Witcher, where they came off a brutal last place. I don’t think we can hope for a Bethesda to hire better writers because they’d have to turf their upper-management to do so. Todd Howard probably writes most of it himself on his bib at lunchtime. They’re better off financially sticking with Players Who Collect Every Broom and the barest hint of a story to lead them past the brooms. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 14, 2022 6:00:06 GMT
I have a very specific list of things to collect in Fallout 3. My house in Megaton is full of Abraxo cleaner. I can't remember why I'm collecting it, but I've got loads. And lunchboxes
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Post by mothercruncher on Jun 14, 2022 6:36:02 GMT
Yep, Bethesda stuff leaves me cold for that reason- Skyrim is a gorgeous mile wide puddle that’s 2mm deep. I doubt they’ve improved here.
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 14, 2022 23:26:37 GMT
I see that Bethesda will apparently make it clear which of the 1000 planets will have actual content and which will be barren and solely exist for resource collection.
Sounds better than having to explore each planet you come across to avoid FOMO but I still feel like adding those planets will do more to make the game feel more empty than massive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2022 23:37:05 GMT
Much of space is empty, so it makes sense.
1000 is a lot either way though. I'll go to 20 places and be content.
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Post by Danno on Jun 14, 2022 23:48:32 GMT
I hope the sheet physics are realistic. Do your thing! |
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Post by Danno on Jun 14, 2022 23:49:24 GMT
Hooooo shit is this A Todd Game(tm)
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 15, 2022 7:20:21 GMT
Much of space is empty, so it makes sense. This is mostly why I expected them to emphasise the space bit of the space game. You can get away with space being bland. I would think it would suit Bethesda. I fully expect that ~990 of those planets are just going to be for mining resources and a few random encounters. If the resources you mine actually lead to some interesting ideas (presumably connected with the base building) then I don't mind so much. If it is just there for the sake of grind than I'll probably not bother with any of those ~990 planets. |
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Jun 15, 2022 7:29:34 GMT
Todd confirming that there will be 4 major cities and that you can't go seamlessly between going from a planet to space or going from space and entering the planet by just flying down.
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Jun 15, 2022 8:36:17 GMT
I hope the sheet physics are realistic. Do your thing! lol, bit late now but ok.  |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Jun 15, 2022 9:13:19 GMT
Hmm. This all makes it sounds a lot more standard Bethesda RPG than I was expecting from the hype and trailers, and despite the "more handcrafted content" claim it doesn't mean much without knowing what kind of content that is. the "no seamless travel" bit is a downer, and instantly makes the scale feel much smaller.
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skalpadda
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 15, 2022 9:23:36 GMT
Todd confirming that there will be 4 major cities and that you can't go seamlessly between going from a planet to space or going from space and entering the planet by just flying down. The IGN article confirms most of the planets will be procedurally generated, which is no surprise, and I assume the vast, vast majority of the planets that have some actual stuff on them as well given the sheer size of, well, a planet. I'm curious how it will work in practice given this is something on a whole other scale than Bethesda has ever done before. Their games have been large and full of stuff but the building blocks have always been very simple and this is (in theory) staggeringly huge compared to previous games.
Oblivion had some procedurally generated terrain, it was just the basic terrain of the overworld which was then tweaked and populated with everything else by hand, so the "procedural generation" involved was just a shortcut in early development. Nothing like large scale complex procedural generation being talked about here.
This is made in an engine that so far hasn't been able to do complex interiors without a loading screen taking you to a separate cell from the main world. The cells in previous games are fairly rigid and the most dynamic thing you get is actors (NPCs, mobs) spawned in from random leveled lists or events dictated by scripts (quest events and so on).
Todd says "land anywhere" on the planets in the trailer but we've seen nothing to indicate we'll be able to roam freely without interruption once we're down there. I wouldn't be surprised if it works essentially like an overworld map in classical RPGs and instead of a planet being a continuous surface to explore, "landing" in a random spot spawns you into a large but limited procedurally generated map that's populated off leveled lists, more similar to other Bethesda games.
None of this is necessarily bad, but I think Todd and the tightly cut trailer might be making it sound a lot more grand and open than it will be in practice.
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Post by simple on Jun 15, 2022 9:51:34 GMT
Doing procedural generation on that scale makes me think that the environments - outside of the curated key story locations - are going to be very very bland and samey
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 9:55:18 GMT
Doing procedural generation on that scale makes me think that the environments - outside of the curated key story locations - are going to be very very bland and samey Yep, that's why it would be much better to have far less planets which are properly designed and crafted. Still, "AAAAAAA+++++++ Over 1000 Planets OMG!!!!!" sells. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 15, 2022 9:57:05 GMT
A new engine with greater interactivity, detail, seamless transitioning to interiors, etc would add so much more than just making the games bigger each time. We're at the stage now where it's so big, most of it will have nothing in it. What's the point of them being so big at that point?
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Jun 15, 2022 9:59:11 GMT
You can imagine they're populated |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 15, 2022 10:01:58 GMT
I'm going to imagine you've got a point
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Post by simple on Jun 15, 2022 10:02:13 GMT
Yeah but it could be that 990 of them will be 10x Mooncrab A and 4x Space Peasant F standing outside Base Shack B rather than actual characters in a real location
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Post by darkling on Jun 15, 2022 10:05:18 GMT
It seems everyone and their dog has taken a large dump on Starfield at this point (despite it still being in development) but all I know is that I immensely enjoyed Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Oblivion, and Skyrim, and I fully expect Starfield to get its hooks into me in the same way as those games, even if inevitably certain facets of the game are a bit janky.
I also keep wondering what the alternative western RPG is to Starfield? Aside from Avowed (where announcements seems to have gone quiet) there's nothing else on the horizon to scratch my RPG itch, as far as I can see, so I guess I'll play Starfield when it arrives.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 15, 2022 10:09:05 GMT
Despite all the complaints a shit ton of people will play this. I know I will.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 10:13:30 GMT
It seems everyone and their dog has taken a large dump on Starfield at this point (despite it still being in development) but all I know is that I immensely enjoyed Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Oblivion, and Skyrim, and I fully expect Starfield to get its hooks into me in the same way as those games, even if inevitably certain facets of the game are a bit janky. I also keep wondering what the alternative western RPG is to Starfield? Aside from Avowed (where announcements seems to have gone quiet) there's nothing else on the horizon to scratch my RPG itch, as far as I can see, so I guess I'll play Starfield when it arrives. The next Dragon Age and Mass Effect I suppose but since EA ruined BioWare, expectations are low. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 15, 2022 10:13:59 GMT
Depends how interesting the world is. I've got no interest in Elder Scrolls. It's the Fallout universe I love and the freedom the games give you. So far this is still just a space themed RPG. Haven't seen anything that really gives it character yet
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 10:15:46 GMT
Perks and V.A.T.S are the only good things in the Fallout games.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Jun 15, 2022 10:18:09 GMT
I've mentioned it already, but I would be more impressed with having say 10 planets that do have a lot of focus and care, diverse geography, interesting vistas etc than have 1000 where only a handful truly matter. Given Bethesda's reliance on mod support, I wouldnt be surprised if they're leaving a lot of these planets open and empty enough for mods to come in and make their own settlements/quest storylines etc and have it build up over time.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 15, 2022 10:20:40 GMT
Perks and V.A.T.S are the only good things in the Fallout games. What about all the other stuff? |
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 10:23:08 GMT
Perks and V.A.T.S are the only good things in the Fallout games. What about all the other stuff? meh |
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