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Post by godwhacker on Feb 5, 2022 14:36:27 GMT
www.eurogamer.net/articles/2022-02-05-games-that-avoid-capitalistic-designThey've turned off comments for this one- perhaps wisely, because it's likely to attract a lot of dickheads who see anything related to Capitalism or identity politics as a chance to start quoting Jordan Peterson- but I think it's still worth discussing, because I think it's rather flawed. The article itself is based on this one: medium.com/@betterthemask/white-protagonism-and-imperial-pleasures-in-game-design-digra21-a4bdb3f5583c which starts off with a lot of introduction about how the author is a British Indian woman- great! - and then essentially states that a) the author believes that critical race theory is true and beyond reproach, and b) games were created within that environment and are necessarily imperial to the very core. "It’s impossible not to see the video game as a particularly imperial pleasure. Many technologies that power video games were developed by American military funding, and the global industry is still dominated by the Anglo-American imagination." To which I think: the best selling game ever is Tetris, which is a game about rotating blocks, and was created in Soviet Russia. The game everyone is talking about now is Wordle and that's about spelling. Nintendo seem to be doing very well making absurd games about a plumber walking around giant clocks (although he does have a health-care system that revolves around picking up coins) How are these in any way "imperial" or "capitalist", unless you're saying anything that is sold for money must be capitalist and imperial? Imperial potatoes; capitalist beetroot; I'm not sure that really works. There's critique of monetisation structures as a way to turn fun into profit, which I agree with, but there's also a lot of conflation of monetisation in gaming and themes in gaming. It's a bit confused. It seems to be insisting that there are games about war, and war is a wholly imperialist and capitalist thing. To which I say, is it? After all any communist you meet will tell you that Russia did more than America when it came to stopping Hitler, and they did that with bullets. And while there's definitely meatheaded US power fantasies like Call of Duty, and there's a lot of games about white guys with guns, the main trope that games with guns and violence go for is putting you as a rebel or a freedom fighter, throwing off the yoke of a brutal and oppressive regime... which is kind of anti-imperialist? The main inspiration is not Iraq or Vietnam but the US War of Independence. And perhaps that is an imperialist / capitalist blind-spot- you never get to stick around and rebuild society, so perhaps the assumption is everything will be fine after we get rid of This One Bad Thing- but again that's not something that's unique to right-wing thinking. Overall I think it's very reductionist and not particularly coherent. They've started with the premise that games must be inherently capitalist and Imperial and gone out to find things that support that claim, rather than notice a particular trend in gaming and draw a conclusion. And I'm not saying there isn't a lot wrong with capitalism and the near-feudalism we seem to heading towards- there very definitely is- but I don't think you can accuse most games of being expressions of a deep-seated power structure and cultural monopoly. Anyway, that's wot I think, but I'd be interested to hear other people's opinion.
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Post by Danno on Feb 5, 2022 14:48:27 GMT
I can't think of more than about 2 games featuring the US war of independence. And one of those is probably actually based around the civil war
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Post by godwhacker on Feb 5, 2022 14:52:36 GMT
I can't think of more than about 2 games featuring the US war of independence. And one of those is probably actually based around the civil war Well what I'm getting at is that there's even fewer games about you enslaving Africans or bombing peasants; the plot trope is always about throwing out the oppressors, not doing the oppressing yourself |
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Post by Danno on Feb 5, 2022 14:57:30 GMT
I can't think of more than about 2 games featuring the US war of independence. And one of those is probably actually based around the civil war Well what I'm getting at is that there's even fewer games about you enslaving Africans or bombing peasants; the plot trope is always about throwing out the oppressors, not doing the oppressing yourself Ah sorry, I thought that was what the article(s) were referring to. I haven't got around to reading them yet. |
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 5, 2022 15:02:19 GMT
It’s no coincidence that Mario apes Mussolini’s approach to utilising an external border conflict in the horn of the Mushroom Kingdom for his own imperial gains.
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Post by godwhacker on Feb 5, 2022 15:15:25 GMT
Well what I'm getting at is that there's even fewer games about you enslaving Africans or bombing peasants; the plot trope is always about throwing out the oppressors, not doing the oppressing yourself Ah sorry, I thought that was what the article(s) were referring to. I haven't got around to reading them yet. Nah probably my bad- to be clear my issue is more with the one Eurogamer links to than the one on Eurogamer itself, although the one on Eurogamer does make some odd points. For example: "The satisfaction you feel at levelling up is engineered by an inherently capitalist reward loop - you've worked hard for something, so as a reward you're granted something with which to do more work." I don't think getting a reward for doing something you enjoy, which allows you to do something you enjoy even more, is 'capitalist' at all. I play the drums. I put in a lot of work to learn latin rhythms. My reward was being able to play more complicated latin rhythms. Where's the capitalism here? |
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gray
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Post by gray on Feb 5, 2022 15:42:13 GMT
Please support this article with a subscription starting from £3.99. You can also level up your subscription with a "Premium!" £5.99 sub, or save 15% by purchasing yearly and have a shiny badge to show for it.
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Post by Zuluhero on Feb 5, 2022 15:47:37 GMT
It's all so tenuous isn't it. I guess you can find links or meanings in anything if you over analyse it.
Kinda ironic with them going on about capalist loops in games, when they've been culling free features whilst pushing subscriptions or paywalling any aspect of the site that they can. All the while pushing skewed controversial agendas written specifically in a calculated divisive tone to push site traffic. And then they have the gall to rile people up and not give them an outlet to discuss?
Tbh I never go to EG these days and I'm a lot happier for it. The world has enough misery in it without articles like that to suck any remaining enjoyment out of it.
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Post by rawshark on Feb 5, 2022 15:50:09 GMT
I never realised how boring EG was until they ditched the forum. I felt like Homer trying to watch baseball without beer.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 5, 2022 15:54:32 GMT
It's all so tenuous isn't it. I guess you can find links or meanings in anything if you over analyse it. Kinda ironic with them going on about capalist loops in games, when they've been culling free features whilst pushing subscriptions or paywalling any aspect of the site that they can. All the while pushing skewed controversial agendas written specifically in a calculated divisive tone to push site traffic. And then they have the gall to rile people up and not give them an outlet to discuss? Tbh I never go to EG these days and I'm a lot happier for it. The world has enough misery in it without articles like that to suck any remaining enjoyment out of it. This is what I got from the medium article, while yes there is an overwhelmingly amount of whiteness in protagonist in videogames the other things she mentions and how progression and getting more powerful feeds into a sort of white imperialist power fantasy felt like she was really reaching. Essentially you can link anything to something if work you really hard and are looking at the most tenous links and deal wholesale in confirmation bias to achieve your argument. I understand why they turned comments off on the EG article, but you're diminishing your argument if you don't open a line of conversation because all doing is promoting the message that what I am writing is worthy, correct and beyond reproach and feeds into that echo chamber. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 15:59:07 GMT
It's shit and their articles are fucking crap. I can't even be arsed to begin reading pish waffle like that.
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Post by theguy on Feb 5, 2022 16:17:03 GMT
Ah sorry, I thought that was what the article(s) were referring to. I haven't got around to reading them yet. Nah probably my bad- to be clear my issue is more with the one Eurogamer links to than the one on Eurogamer itself, although the one on Eurogamer does make some odd points. For example: "The satisfaction you feel at levelling up is engineered by an inherently capitalist reward loop - you've worked hard for something, so as a reward you're granted something with which to do more work." I don't think getting a reward for doing something you enjoy, which allows you to do something you enjoy even more, is 'capitalist' at all. I play the drums. I put in a lot of work to learn latin rhythms. My reward was being able to play more complicated latin rhythms. Where's the capitalism here? Ha, I've not read the article but that sounds very typical modern EG. It's like that time they implied the viewing figures for Twitch meant Twitch was discriminatory, got slated in the comments for it, so just switched them off. False conclusions based on very loose logic that they seemingly don't want challenged. For the most part I just ignore it. I don't like bashing EG too much but they do come across as incredibly sanctimonious at times. Either that or head firmly up own arse. One day I'll find somewhere else to browse. Maybe. |
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Post by spacein_vader on Feb 5, 2022 16:17:46 GMT
I understand why they turned comments off on the EG article, but you're diminishing your argument if you don't open a line of conversation because all doing is promoting the message that what I am writing is worthy, correct and beyond reproach and feeds into that echo chamber. To me it says "we want interaction from you to improve our Google ranking, but not on subjects that we might need to moderate because that would take money and effort on our side and we're not interested in that." |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 5, 2022 16:20:46 GMT
How strange you quoted me but it says Zuluhero instead.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 16:23:13 GMT
They are so desperately trying to be seen on a completely different intellectual level than other games websites, yet they forget they are a) a video game website and b) they don't have the quality of writers to even attempt stuff like that. Fuck sake a few months ago their video output included make up tutorials. They are all over the place and are obviously really struggling to stay relevant.
Here's an idea. Go back to reviewing video games.
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Post by spacein_vader on Feb 5, 2022 16:29:11 GMT
They are so desperately trying to be seen on a completely different intellectual level than other games websites, yet they forget they are a) a video game website and b) they don't have the quality of writers to even attempt stuff like that. Fuck sake a few months ago their video output included make up tutorials. They are all over the place and are obviously really struggling to stay relevant. Here's an idea. Go back to reviewing video games. But unless you're one of the really big boys just reviewing the same games as everyone else gives you no usp and you fade away. To be as mass market as EG tries you need to be huge. If you can't do that find a niche. Stablemate RPS has a niche (PC gaming,) and even a niche within that niche in that they review the odd blockbuster but lean heavily into indie stuff that there are less reviews of and less competition. Their own digital foundry does it too by getting heavily into geeky settings and image comparisons. They need to pick a niche they can be fairly authoritive on and double down on it. Anyone can get lost in the crowd reviewing COD and FIFA. |
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Post by Zuluhero on Feb 5, 2022 16:35:01 GMT
Somehow the niche of a gaming site telling you how games are part of all the societal wrongs in the world seems somewhat self destructive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 16:39:01 GMT
spacein_vader I know what you mean. It's just a pity the niche they are drifting towards is sanctimonious and poorly written word wank.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Feb 5, 2022 17:06:56 GMT
Fuck sake a few months ago their video output included make up tutorials. Any good? |
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Vortex
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Post by Vortex on Feb 5, 2022 17:08:03 GMT
Wunty learnt to make himself look like colin the caterpillar.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Feb 5, 2022 17:08:50 GMT
Yeah, I assumed he meant it had gone downhill since then
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 17:10:35 GMT
All I'm saying is I know how to make myself really pretty now.
For our lurkers.
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Post by Zuluhero on Feb 5, 2022 17:18:33 GMT
Hawt. You should start a Soulsborne streaming channel and do your make up differently for each stream.
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Post by Frog on Feb 5, 2022 17:41:16 GMT
spacein_vader I know what you mean. It's just a pity the niche they are drifting towards is sanctimonious and poorly written word wank. Kotaku already have that corner sewn up. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 5, 2022 17:44:21 GMT
Sanctimonious but really obsessed with sex that is tangentially connected to games, Kotaku that is. However I do remember that article on EG was about the tall woman from Resi Village that went on how the writer was horny for her. It was fucking weird.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 17:59:21 GMT
spacein_vader I know what you mean. It's just a pity the niche they are drifting towards is sanctimonious and poorly written word wank. Their niche used to be brilliant game reviews. When I first joined the forum there, 14? Odd years ago a lot of sites I used to visit referenced EG as the gold standard. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 18:03:10 GMT
Hawt. You should start a Soulsborne streaming channel and do your make up differently for each stream. would sub 👀 |
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Post by godwhacker on Feb 5, 2022 18:03:43 GMT
They are so desperately trying to be seen on a completely different intellectual level than other games websites, yet they forget they are a) a video game website and b) they don't have the quality of writers to even attempt stuff like that. Fuck sake a few months ago their video output included make up tutorials. They are all over the place and are obviously really struggling to stay relevant. Here's an idea. Go back to reviewing video games. Hey I'm all for intellectual articles on videogames! I don't object to them running this kind of stuff if it's well written and well argued. |
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Post by malek86 on Feb 5, 2022 18:05:24 GMT
spacein_vader I know what you mean. It's just a pity the niche they are drifting towards is sanctimonious and poorly written word wank. Their niche used to be brilliant game reviews. When I first joined the forum there, 14? Odd years ago a lot of sites I used to visit referenced EG as the gold standard. I guess the problem is that nowadays not many people really care for detailed reviews. They just go on Metacritic, or watch a streamer playing or something. I remember they specifically said at one point that reviews just didn't bring in a lot of traffic anymore. |
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Post by elstoof on Feb 5, 2022 19:09:32 GMT
The plan is to write such drivel you have to buy an expo ticket in order to shout at the author
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