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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 12:54:51 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 12:54:51 GMT
I watched Star Trek The Motion Picture the other day to get an idea if TOS would be watchable and the first thing Ilia says when she walks onto the bridge is that she won't be shagging Kirk. So I've decided to skip that one at least If you'd ask me what's the least representative of TOS, I'd say TMP. TOS is so much about its main trio, about charm and humour, and TMP completely fails that. I think TMP is great but its a very very different type of film to what TOS was. I know I’ve said before but you could entirely replace every member of that crew and rebrand TMP as an original property and very few people would have been able to say it was Star Trek. The other movies were all definitely very much more Star Trek TOS. |
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 22, 2021 13:43:02 GMT
I like TMP (director's cut--the theatrical release which you get on blu-ray or when buying HD on Amazon is much worse). But it's an extremely poor example of what TOS is about. Even the much-maligned Star Trek V: The Final Frontier is much better at capturing the soul of TOS. Any film, any episode is a better example of TOS than TMP is.
Among the films, I think most representative are Wrath of Khan for the more serious side of TOS, and The Voyage home for its light-hearted side. The Undiscovered Country is great but I think it's less representative of the TV show than those two.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 14:15:13 GMT
With TMP it seems like they wanted to clearly make something different from TOS, so they gave it a recognisable TOS premise, but a completely different tone, far more formal and scientific. Grown-up almost. And as above, it's a good film, but not the same as the rest of TOS. From Khan onwards, it was back to the old school, and essentially just good or bad extended TOS episodes. Really, really good extended episodes in the case of 2, 4 and 6.
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 14:29:00 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 14:29:00 GMT
I’d agree with that. The tone of TMP is so clearly influenced by serious films like Alien, Close Encounters, and all those other grown up sci-fi movies of the late 70s.
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 22, 2021 14:32:30 GMT
The premise, as much as I like it, was basically a rehash of the Nomad episode. And while credit's due to Gene for the entire idea of Star Trek, his writing contributions were far from the best. He was not a good writer, which becomes painfully apparent if you read his TMP novel. He had no grasp of the characters or how to write them, which is very apparent in the novel and the film is pretty close to the novel. I do blame Gene for TMP missing the mark, he had more control over it than would have been healthy. It wasn't unjustified that they got rid of him for the following films.
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 14:36:12 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 14:36:12 GMT
Is there an iteration of Trek that wasn’t improved by distancing itself from the old man?
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Post by RadicalRex on Sept 22, 2021 14:39:36 GMT
I think ENT could have been a little more Gene
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 22, 2021 14:51:17 GMT
I've gone for DS9 for anyone who was invested in my Star Trek watching decision. I'm a little excited
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razz
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
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Post by razz on Sept 22, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
Good shout
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 15:13:16 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 22, 2021 15:13:16 GMT
I'm invested! I want to hear a running commentary of thoughts on it, along with a per season rating of Sisko's hair (head and facial).
Enjoy though. Usual Star Trek rules of first season being the weakest apply here, but I think it holds up pretty well versus other first seasons.
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 15:15:26 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 15:15:26 GMT
Its probably the best first season of the modern series
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nazo
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Post by nazo on Sept 22, 2021 15:51:12 GMT
It's weird that for a show as progressive as Trek is supposed to be there's a strong history of shittiness and bad politics behind the scenes. Same for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I was really surprised and disappointed to learn that Joss Whedon is such a dick given the shows he's been involved in. |
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Post by britesparc on Sept 22, 2021 16:22:34 GMT
Is there an iteration of Trek that wasn’t improved by distancing itself from the old man? I probably like the new iteration of Trek more than anyone who's regularly posting in this thread, but all the same, Disco & Picard use a little more Gene in their mix. |
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 17:01:38 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 17:01:38 GMT
I’m something of a Discovery apologist myself, although more for its potential than execution. It could definitely do with a lighter touch here and there.
Finish season 2 of The Orville this afternoon (if S1 was a TNG homage then S2 is Voyager but fun in a lot of ways) and have picked up my Enterprise rewatch. Apparently I only got ten episodes in last time but it was off the back of doing all seven series of Voyager in a row.
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 17:16:06 GMT
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Post by gammonbanter on Sept 22, 2021 17:16:06 GMT
Perversely I think season 1 of discovery was good (no way perfect) and got instantly worse the second season 2 began, to the point where I felt embarrassed watching it and skipped season 3 all together.
The glimpse of the future that TNG/VOY/DS9 era trek gave us seemed so er, futuristic, where as now any TV/Film sci fi's imagination of the future seems so generic (holograms and AI etc) and Star Trek has fallen into that trap. I think they need a bold new vision of the utopian future including mind bending tech and philosophy.
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Star Trek
Sept 22, 2021 18:05:14 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 22, 2021 18:05:14 GMT
Season 3 had quite a lot of scenarios and episodes which felt more authentically Trek but with characters acting in ways that really didn’t. More than the first two seasons anyway.
I think part of the issue is that they’re trying to sell it as a prequel to TOS when it makes a lot more sense if it were a prequel to the reboot movies.
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 10:06:55 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 23, 2021 10:06:55 GMT
Three episodes back into Enterprise and this crew are very professional and businesslike, aren’t they?
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razz
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 12:17:15 GMT
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Post by razz on Sept 23, 2021 12:17:15 GMT
I found them quite stiff iirc. I haven't rewatched ENT in years, I miss Dr Phlox and the casually racist outbursts of Shran. Jeffrey Coombs is a legend
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 13:13:46 GMT
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Post by gammonbanter on Sept 23, 2021 13:13:46 GMT
Three episodes back into Enterprise and this crew are very professional and businesslike, aren’t they? Much the same as the first Apollo astronauts, who quite simply had to be human computers who followed the programme. Maybe by the time the TNG era swung around star fleet felt comfortable sending people into space with dramatic backstory and personality flaws! 😆 |
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 13:33:36 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 23, 2021 13:33:36 GMT
I can’t imagine any of this lot boning a haunted alien ghost candle
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Post by britesparc on Sept 23, 2021 13:34:29 GMT
If you have the time and don't mind the awful formatting, this is an excellent breakdown of behind the scenes of Voyager and issues with how the themes were used from the writer Ronald D. Moore (he worked mostly on DS9, a little TNG and a bit of VOY. Best known for show running the Battlestar Galactica reboot, which could be seen as Voyager done right). www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118/Just read this interview, it's really great, he does get to the meat of the issue with a lot of the Trek series. It's funnyin that he also accidentally predicts Enterprise (this interview looks like it's from about twenty years ago) and the Abrams reboot, and manages to get his critiques of them in before they were even made! |
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 14:28:30 GMT
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Post by gammonbanter on Sept 23, 2021 14:28:30 GMT
If you have the time and don't mind the awful formatting, this is an excellent breakdown of behind the scenes of Voyager and issues with how the themes were used from the writer Ronald D. Moore (he worked mostly on DS9, a little TNG and a bit of VOY. Best known for show running the Battlestar Galactica reboot, which could be seen as Voyager done right). www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118/He talks a little about bringing 7 of 9 onto the show and THAT outfit. It is great interview and he really tears the show apart in a way that I can't really argue against. Regarding the tension between Ryan and Mulgrew, Ryan has spoken very openly about it. She was clearly really upset about it too, even after quite a few years. I've got a date with this link and a cup of tea later! Somebody should make a chaos on the bridge style doc for this era! |
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 15:12:30 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 23, 2021 15:12:30 GMT
So the Enterprise episode Fusion basically has a rape scene in it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 16:09:01 GMT
I found them quite stiff iirc. I haven't rewatched ENT in years, I miss Dr Phlox and the casually racist outbursts of Shran. Jeffrey Coombs is a legend He is, that status being assured when he guest starred in an episode of Babylon 5 too. A dude.  |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 23, 2021 16:19:06 GMT
I'm invested! I want to hear a running commentary of thoughts on it, along with a per season rating of Sisko's hair (head and facial). Enjoy though. Usual Star Trek rules of first season being the weakest apply here, but I think it holds up pretty well versus other first seasons. There's something very immediately cosy about Star Trek. Sisko and Kira are pretty wild. I'd say his hair is pretty normal at the moment, hair line is a bit high, but it's fine. He's a handsom man. Kira already seems to have been through a bit of a hair redesign. The set up is really cool anyway! Favourites so far are Sisko, Kira, Odo and Quark. O'Brian looks like my nan, which is nice. Julian is a bit of a nob |
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 16:51:53 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 23, 2021 16:51:53 GMT
To explain, Sisko's hair is the equivalent of Riker's facial hair in TNG, namely the show gets good when he changes style.
It isn't quite as extreme as the effect Riker's beard had on quality of everything around it, but still a surprisingly accurate measure.
And yes, Julian in season 1 is a creepy stalker and I don't think the show realises that. It does acknowledge he was an arse later on, but likely only after fandom told them.
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razz
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Post by razz on Sept 23, 2021 16:59:25 GMT
Inspired by simlpe I thought I'd start rewatching ENT today WTF, I totally forgot there is a straight up porn scene in the pilot. 
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 17:00:27 GMT
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Post by simple on Sept 23, 2021 17:00:27 GMT
I used to be convinced the Sisko hair measure was absolute then on my netflix rewatch was very pleasantly surprised to be wrong.
With Riker its almost 100% foolproof.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 23, 2021 17:24:20 GMT
One thing I caught in (I think) episode 4 - A Man Alone - was how casual Bashir was about creating a clone and plopping him into society like it was the most normal thing. What about somewhere to live, food, a job, potentially having memories that aren't your own, feelings for people you've never met, the possibility of a massive mental breakdown? The first few episodes have been good though. Enjoyed the tension between Sisko and Picard in the pilot
edit: Thinking about it more, either the personality does carry over, in which case you have the issues mentioned above, or they don't and then you have a full grown child. A child having a fully developed brain and body would be problematic
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Deleted
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Star Trek
Sept 23, 2021 17:24:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 17:24:26 GMT
Just watched my favourite voyager episode again. A stone cold classic that never gets mentioned. Tinker, tailor, doctor spy.
Got me feeling nostalgic now, I think with the grey days coming in and working from home a full marathon may be on the cards. I last did that about 8 years ago and feel like another. Something like 600 hours to watch TOS,TNG, DS9, VOY AND ENT.
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