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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 19:03:45 GMT
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Post by π on Oct 24, 2021 19:03:45 GMT
The distinctly non-canon Dune Encyclopedia also offers this as a theory: As Yuehβs wife was Bene Gesserit, she had put her own conditioning on Yueh to protect herself, creating a contradiction in his own Suk school conditioning. But Iβm not a fan of that one as it undermines the power of the Harkonnen, and that it was all a coincidence. That said I think it is slightly implied that they donβt really know the specifics of how to break the imperial conditioning, just that they have methods that work
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 11:21:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 11:21:31 GMT
It's OK. Lovely cinematography, soundtrack is mostly good although unexpectedly bombastic at times (like when the Atreides had the removals in). No standout performances, aside from Rampling (nowhere near enough of her imo) and the deaf Harkonnen. Momomoa proudly displaying his shit eating grin 90% of his screentime. Forgettable script. Noticeable lack of any real character development. No Emperor, Navigators or Feyd. 5.7/10
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 11:30:04 GMT
Post by oldschoolsavant on Oct 25, 2021 11:30:04 GMT
With his silly high pitched voice ! What was even the point of that ?
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 11:39:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 11:39:07 GMT
I have no idea, but I burst out laughing in the cinema when he spoke. Stone cold silence from the rest of the audience though so it was probably incredibly unwoke of me.
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anephric
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Post by anephric on Oct 25, 2021 12:54:27 GMT
He's deaf so the Voice doesn't affect him, which is why Jessica and Paul have to manipulate the other Harkonnen (Scarface in the book, although they made the Deaf one Scarface in the film as well, so it's confusing).
Verbal Deaf people often have unusual voices, so I guess they were trying to be realistic. I can't imagine Deaf Harkonnens last long though in their society. Or maybe they're really progressive, who knows?
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 13:57:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 13:57:13 GMT
Oh I get why they'd keep a deaf person around to counteract the Benny Jessies, his voice was just so jarring.
Maybe that's all you need to beat the quiche sadderact - a deaf guy.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 15:48:04 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 25, 2021 15:48:04 GMT
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Dune
Oct 25, 2021 20:35:27 GMT
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Post by Nanocrystal on Oct 25, 2021 20:35:27 GMT
I have no idea, but I burst out laughing in the cinema when he spoke. Stone cold silence from the rest of the audience though so it was probably incredibly unwoke of me. That cunt was you??
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Deleted
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 8:17:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 8:17:42 GMT
I am profoundly unapologetic.
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gamma
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 15:07:22 GMT
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Post by gamma on Oct 26, 2021 15:07:22 GMT
Gonna go for a second time tonight. Will make sure to laugh at the appropiate moments.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 15:39:24 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 15:39:24 GMT
I'm rewatching Lynch's Dune now (which looks gorgeous in 4K, btw).
Even Lynch, who's not known as an actor's director or particularly good at portraying melodrama, manages to set up Paul's relationship with Leto and his companionship with Gurney, Thufir and Yueh soooo much better than Villeneuve.
He also sets up the Atreides knowing they're walking into a trap but being overconfident in that knowledge. I don't know, the more I think about the new one the less I like it. It's a big empty spectacle.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 15:40:56 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 15:40:56 GMT
Toto's soundtrack for Lynch's film is also magnificent, so much better than Zimmer's.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 16:07:13 GMT
Post by π on Oct 26, 2021 16:07:13 GMT
THE SLEEPER MUST AWAKEN
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 16:07:41 GMT
Post by π on Oct 26, 2021 16:07:41 GMT
Was that line even in Dune 21? I'm struggling to remember any Paul/Leto interactions actually.
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rawshark
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 16:31:41 GMT
Post by rawshark on Oct 26, 2021 16:31:41 GMT
I had a little laugh at the bagpipes. Some people think they were supposed to be intentionally funny. I don't think Denis Villeneuve does intentionally funny.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 17:09:26 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 26, 2021 17:09:26 GMT
Toto's soundtrack for Lynch's film is also magnificent, so much better than Zimmer's. Absolutely. I love the original soundtrack. I'm going to watch again as surprisingly little has stuck in my mind. Whereas some of the imigary and some of the scenes in OGD will be burned in my mind's eye forever.
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Bongo Heracles
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 17:17:26 GMT
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 26, 2021 17:17:26 GMT
Toto's soundtrack for Lynch's film is also magnificent, so much better than Zimmer's. I swear they used a chunk of it at the end. I do like the new version but I do think it recontextualises the 1984 version as actually being quite a decent stab. It does go south when he meets the fremen with the montage and him actually being space Jesus but, with the material covered in both movies, they are tough to separate. I do love the Lynch version, though. Like properly love it.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 17:24:51 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 17:24:51 GMT
Was that line even in Dune 21? I'm struggling to remember any Paul/Leto interactions actually. They have that one scene where Leto is at the old duke's grave and he tells Paul that he only ever needed to be his son, nothing more. It's not like Prochnow Leto telling Paul how proud he is of him, and Paul getting all emotional and saying 'I want you to be proud of me!' There's just so little emotion in the Villeneuve one. Like, the shot of Yueh weeping in Lynch's film. That's all you need, just some emotion and regret. Yueh just drops dead in the Villeneuve one with fuck-all impact. So the first hour and a half of the Lynch one, great. I have almost literally no problems! It's the last hour that's completely fucked and they hacked to death, it just almost literally jumps to the confrontation at the end, there's fuck-all Fremen stuff apart from a training montage. Such a shame. Apparently, Lynch had a change of heart from his longstanding resentment of his Dune experiences because it still bothered him so much and when Universal wanted him very much to come back and do a director's cut in the early 2000s to draw a line under the whole mess, he was willing but wouldn't do it for free, and they were too cheap to pay him, and that was that. Sad, really.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 17:40:22 GMT
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Post by π on Oct 26, 2021 17:40:22 GMT
I love the Lynch version. I love the game of the Lynch version too, which manages to hugely expand on the lore, or at least the Arrakis side of things (as well as having an amazing soundtrack in its own right). I love most of the books.
I definitely like the new movie but Iβm not sure I love it. For better or for worse, itβs Villeneuve first and Dune second, which you could argue is the same for Dune 84, but Lynchβs seems more Dune-ian in its aesthetics, and I read the first book many years before I even knew the Lynch film existed.
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Bongo Heracles
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 18:09:16 GMT
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 26, 2021 18:09:16 GMT
I suspect that like a lot of people, I still find it odd when fremen donβt use weirding modules.
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Post by beastmaster on Oct 26, 2021 18:10:51 GMT
Part 2 officially given the green light.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 18:16:20 GMT
Post by π on Oct 26, 2021 18:16:20 GMT
I suspect that like a lot of people, I still find it odd when fremen donβt use weirding modules. I go back and forth on them. I get that it was a relatively clever way of representing something that would have been nigh impossible to show on screen in the early 80s, but I also didn't like the change of the line "my name is a killing word" to something literal instead of a philosophical point on the intergalactic jihad he was unleashing. THAT SAID, Dune 84 is pretty self contained so didn't have the room for all that nuance and Dune Messiah stuff anyway, so it's a whatever.
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Bongo Heracles
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 18:32:34 GMT
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 26, 2021 18:32:34 GMT
The second half is, presumably, Studio Notes:The Movie. I do find it hard to believe Lynch would make him literally space jesus unprompted since he's never been literal in any other movie but then the modules and all that are pretty on the nose so maybe he just decided 'this is bullshit' and did what he wanted.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 18:44:14 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 18:44:14 GMT
Toto's soundtrack for Lynch's film is also magnificent, so much better than Zimmer's. I swear they used a chunk of it at the end. I know the moment you mean in the new one because I noticed it too, and listened really hard. I think it's just a coincidence and the minor chords just sound similar. Zimmer is adamant he's never seen Lynch's Dune or heard Toto's soundtrack, and didn't want to be influenced by it.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:00:28 GMT
Post by π on Oct 26, 2021 19:00:28 GMT
I'm doing bad things and comparing like for like scenes between the two films. The gom jabbar scene in the original is way more effective with the internal monologue. Jessica reciting the litany in the new one just didn't feel quite right, especially the way she expresses it, it doesn't feel particularly Bene Gesserit, and the short "my son lives" in the original accomplished the same effect.
In fact, I think leaving out the internal monologuing in general is kind of a bad move. I appreciated the odd moments they did it in either throwaway lines or making it something said in the Fremen language, and I get that voiceovers are considered poor form in modern movies, but still.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:12:16 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 26, 2021 19:12:16 GMT
Part 2 officially given the green light.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:16:15 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 19:16:15 GMT
The second half is, presumably, Studio Notes:The Movie. I do find it hard to believe Lynch would make him literally space jesus unprompted since he's never been literal in any other movie but then the modules and all that are pretty on the nose so maybe he just decided 'this is bullshit' and did what he wanted. Lynch's final script has it raining on Arrakis, it's not ambiguous. What is a shame (that was cut) is Paul at the end saying he'll marry Irulan for lineage purposes but Chani is his concubine, and the famous line from Jessica straight from the novel telling Chani 'history will call us wives.' It was all filmed and is available as a deleted scene, and in the spicediver fan edit. Interestingly, Lynch thought he'd get multiple films, because the plot is so dense, and his first script, which would have been about two and a half hours long, ends right after Paul and Jessica escape from the Harkonnen but before they meet the Fremen, so almost right where Villeneuve sliced it in half. By the time he gets to his third or fourth draft, the second half is massively compressed because De Laurentiis had told him 'NO DAVID ONE FILM ONLY'. And only by the last, final draft do we get it raining on Arrakis. Obviously, Lynch used elements from the later novels because we have the third-stage guild navigator etc. Lynch was ready to do sequels, had the first one been a hit, they had the rights.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:23:10 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 19:23:10 GMT
I'm doing bad things and comparing like for like scenes between the two films. The gom jabbar scene in the original is way more effective with the internal monologue. Jessica reciting the litany in the new one just didn't feel quite right, especially the way she expresses it, it doesn't feel particularly Bene Gesserit, and the short "my son lives" in the original accomplished the same effect. In fact, I think leaving out the internal monologuing in general is kind of a bad move. I appreciated the odd moments they did it in either throwaway lines or making it something said in the Fremen language, and I get that voiceovers are considered poor form in modern movies, but still. I've just done this. There are some really strong scenes in Lynch's version and this is one of them. It has all sorts of subtext that Villeneuve's just doesn't because they stripped all the dialogue down to the barest bare minimum. Like Paul acknowledging the validity of the gom jabbar(I see the truth of it) and Gauis Helen unnerved by his insight. In the new one Timothee just gets all indignant. I know cinema should tell its story primarily through images (Mr Nolan! You cannot call this character Mr Exposition, that's already been done!) but Villeneuve really does strip it back too much, imo.
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:48:24 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 26, 2021 19:48:24 GMT
At what point do the books go shit? I meant to read the first early in the year but am going through it now.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 26, 2021 19:50:09 GMT
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Reviewer likes this
Post by anephric on Oct 26, 2021 19:50:09 GMT
Imo, halfway through Children of Dune, but others may tell you otherwise.
They get insufferably didactic the further you go. Finishing God Emperor was a real struggle for me, I never read the last two. I may give them another go.
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