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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 11:30:30 GMT
Thought I would try a resurrection of my only thread from the old place that had bursts of activity every now and again.
Generally covering first person dungeon crawlers of either western (Eye of the Beholder, Grimrock etc) or Japanese (Etrian Odyssey, the Experience Inc games etc) but was always a pretty flexible thread. My personal preference is for 'designed' dungeons rather than procedural but discuss whatever you want
I thought about copying the major posts from the old thread for a bit of history but it is a lot of text so didn't.
Recent OSDRPG news seems to be mainly of the Japanese variety with Mary Skelter Finale coming out soon on PS4/Switch (apparently including all bonus side content including a VN style recap of MS1 and 2). We also have Undernauts Labyrinth of Yomi on Switch which is the latest Experience Inc game (Stranger of Sword City etc) out before Xmas.
Also, I have just seen that Labyrinth of Galleria is getting an official Switch port in Japan (was Vita/PS4 exclusive) and Uiruki had good things to say about it so hopefully this is the impetus needed for an NISA localisation for next year.
Still no news on what Atlus is doing with the Etrian series but the director I currently working on SMT V (which I am looking forward to but is more traditional JRPG than DRPG(.
In recent(ish) releases we got the Switch double pack of Saviour of Sapphire Wings and Strange of Sword City Revisited with the former being a remake of Knights of the Round and localised for the first time and the latter being available physically for the first time in English (there was a PSN Store only digital release but only in the US in English).
Also, while not a traditional DRPG (being more puzzly and VN adjacent) Kowloon High School Chronicles also got released earlier in the year (a remake of an old PS2 game, again localised for the first time)
I have probably missed a bunch of recent and upcoming stuff, particularly in the western side (I know Vaporum got a sequel).
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Post by suicida on Aug 29, 2021 11:37:27 GMT
I'd love Atlus to released a new Etrian Odyssey game but I'm not sure how the signature "draw your own map" feature of the series would translate to a device with only one screen. There was just something so satisfying about filling out the map grid with the DS stylus
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 12:14:28 GMT
I'd love Atlus to released a new Etrian Odyssey game but I'm not sure how the signature "draw your own map" feature of the series would translate to a device with only one screen. There was just something so satisfying about filling out the map grid with the DS stylus Yeah, I think that is their biggest problem with continuing the series as it was such an integral part of the experience. Strange Journey was great and used the engine but it didn't have the same feel with an auto-map. |
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Aug 29, 2021 12:20:02 GMT
I'd love to contribute more, but Hired Guns is my only experience with this genre. Spent hours messing around with it but never really played it properly. I liked it enough to make it my avatar here though...
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Cappy
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Post by Cappy on Aug 29, 2021 12:46:49 GMT
Etrian Odyssey let's you 'fill in' a map that's already there, automap is just pulling back the curtain on that illusion.
You can still draw your own maps with pen and paper, but you'll find that the automap tends to be better since there are numerous issues with mapping games whilst you're playing them.
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Post by uiruki on Aug 29, 2021 13:27:05 GMT
In terms of what's going on in Japan, Demon Gaze is getting a rerelease on PS4 and Switch next week. I still haven't picked up Monyuu for Switch but the idea of it is interesting, in that you get a better 'grade' for beating bosses in fewer turns and at lower level, and that there's an emphasis on upgrading gear. If I had a commute I suspect I'd already be a good chunk through it.
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 14:17:16 GMT
I'd love to contribute more, but Hired Guns is my only experience with this genre. Spent hours messing around with it but never really played it properly. I liked it enough to make it my avatar here though... The Amiga game? That was very impressive for the time with it's 4 way split screen stuff. |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 29, 2021 14:42:01 GMT
I love the idea of these games. But I gotta say that I don't love the "grid-based movement + real-time combat" part of it in your Grimrocks and whatnot. I know that it's tradition, but trying to dance around enemies by strafing in a square is fiddly at best. And it looks and feels dumb.
Personally I much prefer proper turn-based combat, like with Etrian Odyssey.
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Post by uiruki on Aug 29, 2021 14:48:26 GMT
Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I much prefer the separate combat screen Wizardry style approach.
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Aug 29, 2021 15:52:19 GMT
I'd love to contribute more, but Hired Guns is my only experience with this genre. Spent hours messing around with it but never really played it properly. I liked it enough to make it my avatar here though... The Amiga game? That was very impressive for the time with it's 4 way split screen stuff. Yeah that's the one. It was an incredible jump up from anything I'd played before, but I mainly used it as a combat sandbox- like standing 2 characters facing each other 10 blocks apart and then hitting fire on each alternately and seeing who killed who first, that sort of thing. |
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Post by quadfather on Aug 29, 2021 18:04:22 GMT
Yeah hired guns was great.
Which reminds me of abandoned places on the Amiga too. That was pretty good.
Which then cues dungeon master/chaos strikes back. Both of which are excellent to this day imo.
I did grimrock but bounced off grimrock 2 a bit unfortunately.
Those switch games mentioned earlier sound interesting. I'll check those out. Need a good flick dungeon game again
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 18:16:20 GMT
As I started with the likes of Eye of the Beholder I can deal happily with either realtime or turn based. Zanki Zero was my most recent realtime one I think and I enjoyed that. Full 3D viewpoints count but not too many in that category really bar Bards Tale IV a few weeks back.
Re.Hired Guns, I seem to recall they were working on a remake/sequel on PC at one point but don't think it made it out. Space Hulk was probably the closest follow up.
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Post by knighty on Aug 29, 2021 18:36:05 GMT
So this seems like a thread of potential interest to me….what’s the closest modern equivalent to the old bards tales then? Preferably with picking classes of party members etc, levelling them up. Altho hopefully without the random ‘secret’ walls that looked identical. Finally got the point where my party was levelled up but I couldn’t figure anything else out to get to a harder area.
Played Efrain odyssey years ago but was way too hard for me. Could probably give it a go now on the Switch, but they aren’t out, is that correct? Anything close? Turned based party style affairs.
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 18:48:19 GMT
So this seems like a thread of potential interest to me….what’s the closest modern equivalent to the old bards tales then? Preferably with picking classes of party members etc, levelling them up. Altho hopefully without the random ‘secret’ walls that looked identical. Finally got the point where my party was levelled up but I couldn’t figure anything else out to get to a harder area. Played Efrain odyssey years ago but was way too hard for me. Could probably give it a go now on the Switch, but they aren’t out, is that correct? Anything close? Turned based party style affairs. I take it you saw the Bards Tale IV release (also got a console release on PS4, not sure if it also hit Xbox). The Experience Inc games (Saviors of Sapphire Wings and Stranger in Sword City Revisited double pack being their most recent Switch/PC release) are effectively the evolution of the original western Wizardry games. I don't know what formats you have access to but there are also the Operation Darkness and Babel games on PC/Vita which are earlier titles. Labyrinth of Refrain is quite highly regarded and out on most current formats but is a bit more modern (I haven't given this a proper go yet but it has a demo on Switch) |
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 29, 2021 18:49:14 GMT
Also Lost Child which is a bit more Shin Megami Tensei-like with summoned creatures etc and is out on Vita, Switch (I think) and PS4.
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Post by knighty on Aug 29, 2021 22:10:35 GMT
Should have said, no PC my end which I assume is where most live. Might give those switch ones a go (the double pack).
I swear I remember bards tale IV coming out ages ago - wasn’t it supposed to be ‘humourous’? I think I remember thinking it had gone third person action RPG or similar. Will do a bit of research!
I first got into pc gaming twenty five odd years ago with a bundle pack of strategy games (included the original civ), and a CD slipcase full of the three bards tale games, a couple of wizardry games and some more tat. They were old when I got them I think!
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Post by uiruki on Aug 29, 2021 22:33:07 GMT
I dunno about the PC version but Lost Child on console was a bit clunky. Definitely had that El Shaddai feel to it though. Labyrinth of Refrain is borderline genius (and the sequel is even better) but it might be a bit challenging for someone who's been out of the genre for a while. For me, the Experience games from Demon Gaze on ended up being what really drew me into the genre. Quick combat and (unless you try and play their early PC stuff) reasonably sensible stat nerdery. I did the spinner dungeon early in Operation Abyss and felt like the King of Video Games. I briefly tried the Bards Tale 4 on Game Pass but didn't really get into it. I don't think it moved quickly enough for my taste. Thinking about it, Undernauts: Labyrinth of Yomi might end up being a decent reintroduction to the genre if you just want to map some maps and hack some slashes. It's a good one.
edit: if it wasn't for some VERY OBVIOUS ISSUES I'd recommend the Dungeon Travelers games on Vita. The soundtracks are exceptional, especially the battle music. I hope that Sting can make a DRPG again as they clearly have what it takes; some of the maps on DT2 and 2-2 are bastards in the best way.
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 30, 2021 9:46:45 GMT
Should have said, no PC my end which I assume is where most live. Might give those switch ones a go (the double pack). I swear I remember bards tale IV coming out ages ago - wasn’t it supposed to be ‘humourous’? I think I remember thinking it had gone third person action RPG or similar. Will do a bit of research! I first got into pc gaming twenty five odd years ago with a bundle pack of strategy games (included the original civ), and a CD slipcase full of the three bards tale games, a couple of wizardry games and some more tat. They were old when I got them I think! There was a third person piss-take game released in the PS2 era and re-released relatively recently but inXile also made a proper Bards Tale IV targeting the old school fans with a choice of free movement or tiles and turn based combat. I haven't given it a proper go bit it seems fairly authentic. I don't know how good the console port is though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 10:04:54 GMT
Hey, speaking of Amiga games in this vein, anyone play Corporation? I remember loving it, but it was brutally hard.
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Cappy
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Post by Cappy on Aug 30, 2021 10:34:07 GMT
I don't remember much about Corporation, besides it being so hard I couldn't get very far.
These days, with the ability to save anywhere that an emulator gives you, plus guides online you might be able to get past the initial difficulty spike. I suspect it's one of those games that evens out a bit once you've got some upgrades.
My favourite dungeon crawlers of that period:
Eye of the Beholder
Dungeon Master/Chaos Strikes Back
Bloodwych
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 30, 2021 10:52:16 GMT
I probably played the first two EOB games the most back then but remember Abandoned Places and Black Crypt being decent too. I never actually played Bloodwych (which has actually been re-released on Steam and GOG relatively recently IIRC) but remember it having a cool box cover. On PC Lands of Lore was the obvious non-TSR licensed WOB follow-up series. In the procedural generation category the original Dungeon Hack was reasonably fun (I forget how good the '3D' version, Slayer on 3DO, turned out...(
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Post by jellyhead on Aug 30, 2021 14:47:00 GMT
Corporation was tricky, i only really remember putting hours into it and that's about it. I still have my Dungeon Master/Chaos Strikes Back ST disks here somewhere.
Dungeoncrawlers.org is a nice nostalgia site i visit now and then. They don't list Corporation though so i think they count it as an FPS rather than a dungeon crawler... ah yeah, they want gird-based movement. Still worth a visit though.
The one that really grabbed me was Captive. You played a squad of 4 robots who were sent in to rescue someone from sci-fi prison. I played that for hours and it was tricky for young me, i revisited a few years ago and managed to complete it which i'm chuffed about. I recently picked up the Ishar games from GOG for next to nothing and i'm looking forward to getting annoyed at them over the winter. A recentish decent cheapo game is Paper Sorceror. It has great "Pen Drawn" art style but is procedural, i also have Drawngeon in the same vein but haven't played it yet. I went on a bit of a Grid-Crawler or "Blobber" binge a couple of years ago and picked up a TON of games many are the more modern ones mostly ported from Vita like Elminage Gothic, Ray Gigant, Mary Skelter, Sword City, Operation Abyss, tokyo Xanadu, Labyrinth of Refrain and a good few more on Steam, GOG, Switch and Vita. I now need to find the Fountain of Youth so i can have time to play them all. |
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Post by quadfather on Aug 30, 2021 15:29:26 GMT
Hey, speaking of Amiga games in this vein, anyone play Corporation? I remember loving it, but it was brutally hard. Yeah I remember that one. Had a green monster on the cover iirc. Set in some office corporation office environment where you needed to escape or something. Yeah, I didnt get very far either due to the difficulty |
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Post by quadfather on Aug 30, 2021 15:31:12 GMT
Black crypt! That was a blinder that one. I remember being awed by how smooth the graphics were when you opened a door. It was all so smooth. Haha, blimey.
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 30, 2021 17:54:25 GMT
Black crypt! That was a blinder that one. I remember being awed by how smooth the graphics were when you opened a door. It was all so smooth. Haha, blimey. One of Raven Software's earlier games before they became well-known (and before they got swallowed by CoD). Another I keep meaning to get (and perhaps play) is the PC port of the PS3 Wizardry game. Fairly cheap on GOG etc. Probably going to try and play through my Mary Skelter games next before the Finale release. Edit - I think there have been quite a few console Wizardry fan translations over the last year or so but not looked into them yet. |
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Post by uiruki on Aug 30, 2021 18:23:51 GMT
One of the Wizardry Gaiden games has a page up on Steam but predictably there appear to have been some issues with the rights. Hopefully they sort it.
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Cappy
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Post by Cappy on Aug 31, 2021 11:37:22 GMT
I probably played the first two EOB games the most back then but remember Abandoned Places and Black Crypt being decent too. I never actually played Bloodwych (which has actually been re-released on Steam and GOG relatively recently IIRC) but remember it having a cool box cover. On PC Lands of Lore was the obvious non-TSR licensed WOB follow-up series. In the procedural generation category the original Dungeon Hack was reasonably fun (I forget how good the '3D' version, Slayer on 3DO, turned out...(
Have you tried the GBA version of Eye of the Beholder? It's unlike any other version, it's business as usual until you get to your first enemy encounter then the perspective switches to an isometric tile based view with turn based combat. It actually makes far more effort to create a D&D type of experience than the original did.
I wish the source code was out there because with some tinkering to fix problems like some sub par art assets it could be ported over to PC or anything with better resolution than a GBA to clean up the rough edges and make a pretty interesting alternate version of Eye of the Beholder. I wouldn't miss the original combat at all, attack, backstep, attack, backstep, attack, backstep...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2021 12:30:04 GMT
Is there anything on the Switch that you'd recommend at the moment that is like EOB (and its successors) or Dungeon Master? I might find I no longer have the patience for them, but I used to love them back in the Amiga 500 days.
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Post by quadfather on Aug 31, 2021 12:35:59 GMT
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Aug 31, 2021 13:43:49 GMT
I probably played the first two EOB games the most back then but remember Abandoned Places and Black Crypt being decent too. I never actually played Bloodwych (which has actually been re-released on Steam and GOG relatively recently IIRC) but remember it having a cool box cover. On PC Lands of Lore was the obvious non-TSR licensed WOB follow-up series. In the procedural generation category the original Dungeon Hack was reasonably fun (I forget how good the '3D' version, Slayer on 3DO, turned out...(
Have you tried the GBA version of Eye of the Beholder? It's unlike any other version, it's business as usual until you get to your first enemy encounter then the perspective switches to an isometric tile based view with turn based combat. It actually makes far more effort to create a D&D type of experience than the original did.
I wish the source code was out there because with some tinkering to fix problems like some sub par art assets it could be ported over to PC or anything with better resolution than a GBA to clean up the rough edges and make a pretty interesting alternate version of Eye of the Beholder. I wouldn't miss the original combat at all, attack, backstep, attack, backstep, attack, backstep...
I played it a little, an odd mix of EOB with GOLD BOX style combat from what I recall. Is it actually decent enough for a full play through? I can't remember if I own it or not though... |
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