|
Post by deekyfun on Jul 1, 2023 8:45:27 GMT
Have we done this one yet? Absolutely insane (devil in the detail etc). Rishi appears to have gotten his reform ideas from the video game Lemmings.
|
|
aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
|
Post by aubergine on Jul 1, 2023 9:03:16 GMT
Is there a specific thread for Macron saying the riots in France are because of computer games? They’re pretty close to the UK.
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 1, 2023 9:08:49 GMT
World Politics thread.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,857
|
Post by zephro on Jul 1, 2023 11:03:08 GMT
Going back a bit to whether the UK is doomed or not. I don't really think it is, well more or less so than any other European country. France has serious issues, look at the rioting going on. Germany does, the Netherlands keeps flirting with Geert Wilders, Italy has a very fascist adjacent Prime Minister and even less political stability than here etc. So we don't seem particularly exceptional really.
The last 13 years have involved economically repeatedly punching ourselves in the crotch and a severe test of parliamentary democracy. But the second one at least seems to, in the end, have done its job and fully ejected Johnson. The Tories have let a lot of stuff rot, but there's still the basic infrastructure of being a Social Democracy again, e.g. the NHS. It wouldn't actually take a full revolution to get that back on track. It'd take a lot of reform, but it looks doable.
The USA on the other hand. Fucking bin-fire and I can't see anyway of them getting out of it.
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 1, 2023 11:20:02 GMT
America could get out of it if the majority of people were white Christian and straight, women didn't work and stayed at home making and raising babies, no one got divorced, everyone had a gun, black people were slaves and and all the other ethnic minorities knew their place lest they be put in a camp.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,857
|
Post by zephro on Jul 1, 2023 11:31:54 GMT
It's more that the way the Supreme Court is appointed and how the Senate is elected just gives license to the Republicans to act like total cunts. Most Americans are actually in favour of abortion rights, gun controls and aren't white supremacists. But reform of any of those institutions just isn't on the cards, so they are fucked. Well unless you just made Texas secede.
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 1, 2023 11:39:54 GMT
And Florida.
|
|
minimatt
Junior Member
would you like us to assign someone to butter your muffin?
Posts: 1,596
|
Post by minimatt on Jul 1, 2023 11:59:27 GMT
Going back a bit to whether the UK is doomed or not i lean more pessemistic. keep going back to that factoid that a hundred years ago Argentina was one of the largest economies in the world. There is no guarantee the UK will always be a large economy, all it took to knock Argentina from the perch the UK currently hangs onto was a hundred years, bad luck, and bad government. a hundred years doesn't feel that long to someone who can remember a good chunk of the 1980s
we're seeing the results of a lot of bad government coming home to roost now. privatise and strip profits from basic infrastructure like transport and utilities and nothing is noticable for the first year, the first ten years. But 30 years later, everything starts failing, it becomes - all too apparent that its going to take gargantuan, perhaps insurmountable, effort and expense to fix. Think of the bad decisions we've had in the last thirteen years - a litany of them, some beginning to become noticeable now as NHS waiting lists soar, schools crumble, and class sizes multiply, trade deficits widen, export manufacturing craters - and some of them will only get worse, or become apparent, down the road.
since the financial crash most of europe has had 1 or 2% higher gdp growth than the UK - you don't notice 1 or 2% difference in a year or two, but after fifteen it's apparent
during the pension protests in france a while back I think a lot of UK folks learned for the first time that people in france work fewer hours, retire earlier, get paid more, and still have higher productivity. that difference is not because of luck.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,857
|
Post by zephro on Jul 1, 2023 12:15:04 GMT
It's still more like France here though. France went through decades of not growing like the UK, but now does so more than the UK. Italy's had its ups and downs as well, growth in Italy in the 80s was massive for instance. We're still, for now, on that track. It's fixable, whether anyone does or not is another matter.
Argentinian bad government during the 20th Century is extremely different. There's at least 3 military coups (generals, not known for their grasp of economics), populist Fascism under Peron, revolutions, guerrilla warfare and government death squads. Then the times they weren't going through that chaos they attempted Import Substitution Industrialisation, which didn't work it just ran up debt. E.g. an entire century of fucking batshittery. The UK is stagnant, has been for 15 years, which happens to European countries, it's absolutely no way near a military coup.
Another good example of stagnant but sort of pootling along for a couple decades, now doing quite well again: Japan.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,857
|
Post by zephro on Jul 1, 2023 12:42:17 GMT
For clarity the Tories definitely have fucking no answers for this, the Lib Dems don't either. Labour have some, and they're better than the alternative. Labour still seem to cautious. To me a decent package of reforms that'd get you back in the right place: - Taxing rent better, e.g. equalising capital gains with income tax, taxing landlords like income tax, compulsory purchase not having to go with the "hope value", any kind of minimal wealth tax even if it's just a replacement for council tax.
- Raise corporation tax to something in line with the rest of Europe, but with plenty of incentives for capital spending getting written off, and like Biden taxing share buybacks. See above for dividends getting taxed harder. To both raise more tax revenue but also encourage proper investment.
- Invest hard in Green Energy, as its a growth industry, will lower energy bills for everyone including other industries and if there's a nationalised provider you could actually cash in profits selling excess wind energy to Europe.
- Planning permission rules to actually make it easier to build new affordable homes
- Remove stupid Tory Union laws so collective bargaining can actually work properly
- Doing on the cheap nationalisation when rail franchises/water companies go to fuck. Ala East Coast Mainline.
- Not sure how but encouraging more cooperative/employee owned businesses to exist
- Actual substantive devolution away from Westminster
- Actual reform of the stuff we have so it works properly. The NHS needs more entry points, either more GPs or bring back walk in centres to get people out of A&E. Fix the IT situation. Fix the payroll for doctors, that kinda boring shit.
Wouldn't be immediate but it'd tilt the balance back to productivity and redistribute money away from the owners of capital. The economic part of a manifesto anyhow. TLDR; bring back Gordon Brown.
|
|
|
Post by Chopsen on Jul 1, 2023 13:15:34 GMT
I'm still not entirely clear why we need corp tax.
You could just increase dividends and CGT on shares.
There is evidence that companies prioritise return to investors ahead of wages with rising corp tax.
It feels more like something ideolically driven and/or a stealth tax to me.
/Shrugs.
|
|
|
Post by Resident Knievel on Jul 1, 2023 13:53:21 GMT
Tories reduced corporation tax when getting in to power in 2010 but we've still lagged massively behind our contemporaries when it comes to private investment.
Reducing corporation tax under the illusion that productivity will increase, wages will increase and dividends will decrease seems ideologically driven to me.
/shrugs
|
|
|
Post by Chopsen on Jul 1, 2023 14:16:14 GMT
"2010 but we've still lagged massively behind our contemporaries when it comes to private investment."
The most obvious contemporary being Ireland.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,857
|
Post by zephro on Jul 1, 2023 14:24:15 GMT
Council ordered to end 4 day week trialThis is the kind of absolute bullshit where we need devolution to actually mean something. You can't have devolution of any kind and have central government permanently trying to hobble it or control freak it. You need to accept the Scottish government, or the Mayor of Greater Manchester, etc. might actually have better ideas or interesting new ones you could learn from. See also: London being able to do fuck all about The Met because they answer to the Home Secretary or transport ministers repeatedly trying to fuck Khan's next election plans by fucking with with the TfL budget.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,120
Member is Online
|
Post by cubby on Jul 1, 2023 14:42:23 GMT
Small government tho.
|
|
|
Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 2, 2023 12:45:35 GMT
How many days a week do MPs need to go in to the office?
|
|
X201
Junior Member
Posts: 4,887
Member is Online
|
Post by X201 on Jul 2, 2023 13:22:41 GMT
There is no set requirement. I think you need to make one appearance in order to claim an office and other stuff Although their own party will order them to turn up for certain votes.
|
|
geefe
Full Member
Short for Zangief
Posts: 8,323
|
Post by geefe on Jul 2, 2023 13:31:02 GMT
The blood is rushing to Mogg's nethers upon reading that.
|
|
Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,429
Member is Online
|
Post by Tuffty on Jul 3, 2023 10:48:55 GMT
I have to say that I saw a headline about "Question Time host shocked by response of audience on whether they support deportations to Rwanda" and I assumed the entire audience supported it and didn't read the article in a depression. Found out a day later that actually no-one did, and my faith in humanity is +2 And what's more is that supposedly rhe audience were a majority of Conservative voters. Pretty embarrasing for Helen Whately to try and continue the spin that no really, it's a good idea.
|
|
Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,960
|
Post by Rich on Jul 3, 2023 11:06:41 GMT
It was glorious. She mumbled something about it proving that they can make tough decisions and desperately tried to move things on.
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jul 3, 2023 11:14:23 GMT
The sad thing is that CCHQ and No10 would have been delighted with that answer
|
|
|
Post by Vandelay on Jul 3, 2023 11:15:37 GMT
I hope she tried to roll out the usual line that they are delivering the people's priorities before the audience was asked the question.
|
|
|
Post by Danno on Jul 3, 2023 22:32:15 GMT
Someone said that Sunak and Dowden at PMQs are half of the Inbetweeners and holy shit. No wonder they got rid of the public masturbators.
|
|
|
Post by Whizzo on Jul 3, 2023 22:36:46 GMT
Some quality and righteous shit posting from Election Maps UK.
|
|
|
Post by Trowel 🏴 on Jul 4, 2023 7:56:54 GMT
|
|
minimatt
Junior Member
would you like us to assign someone to butter your muffin?
Posts: 1,596
|
Post by minimatt on Jul 4, 2023 8:00:37 GMT
that's the account who's sickeningly prodigious for their age, that age being: failed to get a place at a bunch of uni's PPE courses 2 years ago until basically every senior political journo reaslised they'd been cribbing off a teenager for years and the unis reaslised they'd done fucked up
edit: the election maps one, not the robert jenrick is a philistine one
|
|
|
Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 4, 2023 8:17:22 GMT
I know that if I was a kid who'd struggled all the way from somewhere like africa, through dangers unknown, I'd definitely go back home if they didn't have some cute cartoons on the wall. I'm sure it'll be as effective at discouraging asylum seekers as every other Conservative policy.
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jul 4, 2023 8:20:41 GMT
It's just downright cruel. Such utter cunts.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,382
Member is Online
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Jul 4, 2023 8:33:26 GMT
I did laugh this morning. Johnny 'Soldiers' Mercer was on GMB to talk about Soldiers and they asked him about Rishi Sunaks recent column lording Bairstow for carting off 'eco-zealots' and how it will likely encourage vigilante-esque behaviour and all he could say was his The Sun column was 'carefully calibrated'.
He just kept repeating it, effectively admitting that he was just throwing red meat to the dumbasses who read that shit rag.
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 4, 2023 10:45:38 GMT
Hang on, hang on...Johnny Mercer used to be a soldier?! He's really kept that under his hat.
|
|