Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 26, 2024 12:33:36 GMT
Yeah, absolutely. Its a song we heard constantly in the last administration to excuse appalling behaviour. You're working within the rules, fine, that just means the rules need changing.
You can declare Ed Sheehan tickets but there is the fundamental question of why any MP should be given them in the first place. And it was so avoidable. It wasn't many months ago when it emerged that most of the cabinet had taken Russian money. 'It was within the rules'. Oh, sorry, I didn't realise, that's fine then.
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 26, 2024 12:40:46 GMT
The issue is with going down the "doesn't matter if it is within the rules, the public don't like it" is that you then need to answer the question, so what replaces it? You can bet that any answer to that question is likely to be liked a whole lot less.
As much as we may not like it, all parties rely on donations. Maybe you could say that there needs to be a cap on how much can be donated, but I suspect any cap that is placed would likely be higher than the amounts that Labour are being dragged over the coals for. Anything lower would see them unable to run campaigns.
You also would end up denying the vast majority from being able to enter politics, as they would end up needing to fund a lot of it themselves.
Also, do the general population actually care or have they ended up caring because it is all they are seeing for the past few weeks and the press keep telling them about it big scary letters? I don't think any of the things that have come up, when presented with all the facts, would upset many people.
Edit - and the last lot did not transparently declare these things! Johnson kept "losing" WhatsApp messages about who gave him money.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 26, 2024 12:47:46 GMT
You're talking about two different things. Nothing replaces them. Party donations are a least worst thing, a necessary evil. As seen by the Hester farrago, you can still buy money by donating millions to the party itself but nobody should be donating to individual MPs because that, obviously, is far more prone to corruption.
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 26, 2024 12:48:50 GMT
Financial donations to parties for use in campaigning are a lot easier to justify than personal donations of Taylor Swift concert tickets to named individuals, for example. It's obtuse to argue they're the same.
You can never really get away with political parties representing certain people's view. That's kind of their *point*.
This issue is a matter of personal influence on and access to individuals who have direct input on passing legislation.
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 26, 2024 13:02:52 GMT
Equally with tickets I would say no one really cares, without the media hysteria. We all saw Starmer and his wife watching Taylor Swift before the election. I don't think anyone seriously complained about that (neither did anyone complain about the hospitality treatment Corbyn had at Glastonbury).
Really though, most of the press focus has been on party donations. The tickets have been a bit of a side story. Even if we do add those in, should we be saying political leaders should no longer attend the FA Cup Final? Should Starmer not have gone to the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Should the Culture Secretary not attend events run by he Royal Opera House or the National Theatre?
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Post by rhaegyr on Sept 26, 2024 13:08:21 GMT
Everyone is struggling to make ends meet and cutting back on luxiries.
You then see the current PM/Party (who decried the Tories for their sleaze, corruption and presented himself as the antithesis of this) getting free tickets to football games, music concerts and the like that have nothing to do with governing a country.
It's not that hard to see why the average person would be pissed off.
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Post by rhaegyr on Sept 26, 2024 13:17:16 GMT
His son's accomodation for GCSEs made me laugh too. Was a donor's empty flat really the only option? No family members or a friends house where he could revise? No library close to home to get some studying done? Couldn't just stay late after school to get some revision done? Edit - fair points from Vandelay. Still don't think it looks great though and Labour should be a bit savvier with this sort of thing. |
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Post by Dougs on Sept 26, 2024 14:41:43 GMT
Equally with tickets I would say no one really cares, without the media hysteria. We all saw Starmer and his wife watching Taylor Swift before the election. I don't think anyone seriously complained about that (neither did anyone complain about the hospitality treatment Corbyn had at Glastonbury). Really though, most of the press focus has been on party donations. The tickets have been a bit of a side story. Even if we do add those in, should we be saying political leaders should no longer attend the FA Cup Final? Should Starmer not have gone to the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Should the Culture Secretary not attend events run by he Royal Opera House or the National Theatre? In their official capacity, that's fine. Sometimes Ministers need to be present at these things to demonstrate support for a sector or whatever. But what shouldn't happen is most of the MPs being in hock to a particular lobby group, and then go on to represent those views in the House/argue for policy change (see Gambling lobby). We're not as bad as the states but it ain't far off. |
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 26, 2024 15:08:48 GMT
Equally with tickets I would say no one really cares, without the media hysteria. We all saw Starmer and his wife watching Taylor Swift before the election. I don't think anyone seriously complained about that (neither did anyone complain about the hospitality treatment Corbyn had at Glastonbury). Really though, most of the press focus has been on party donations. The tickets have been a bit of a side story. Even if we do add those in, should we be saying political leaders should no longer attend the FA Cup Final? Should Starmer not have gone to the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Should the Culture Secretary not attend events run by he Royal Opera House or the National Theatre? In their official capacity, that's fine. Sometimes Ministers need to be present at these things to demonstrate support for a sector or whatever. But what shouldn't happen is most of the MPs being in hock to a particular lobby group, and then go on to represent those views in the House/argue for policy change (see Gambling lobby). We're not as bad as the states but it ain't far off. Agree. Rules around donations from industries that could influence policy should be looked at. I don't think there is a suggestion anything like that has happened here though. There was a previous story about donations from gambling industry and how that might effect Labour continuing with Tory proposed changes to gambling reform (https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/28/tory-betting-scandal-labour-gambling-industry-regulation). This was before the election and don't know whether a conclusion has become apparent yet. That story also brings us back around to changing the system around party donations. We (as a nation) aren't talking about that sort of thing though. And we aren't talking about it as those controlling the narrative don't want changes to those rules. Instead, we are talking about a Labour peer (and likely family friend) letting Starmer's son use his flat as a quiet place to study. |
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 26, 2024 17:44:34 GMT
In other news, does anybody care if non doms leave the UK because if tax rises? Who actually gives a shit? And don't give me any trickle down nonsense
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 26, 2024 17:48:26 GMT
No.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Sept 26, 2024 18:02:34 GMT
Same old crap for three decades  |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 26, 2024 18:05:43 GMT
Same old crap for three decades I know right. So what if he had AIDS. |
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X201
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Post by X201 on Sept 26, 2024 18:07:55 GMT
Good AIDS or bad AIDS?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 26, 2024 18:14:18 GMT
Obviously the good kind.
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 26, 2024 18:29:07 GMT
Sayeeda Warsi finally realises she can't be a Tory any more. It has taken rather longer than it should have and for other reasons than this one but given how critical she's been of the party it's a surprise that the whip wasn't withdrawn any way.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 26, 2024 18:41:33 GMT
Christ, the replies in that thread. Free speech indeed.
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Post by Reviewer on Sept 26, 2024 18:50:07 GMT
In their official capacity, that's fine. Sometimes Ministers need to be present at these things to demonstrate support for a sector or whatever. But what shouldn't happen is most of the MPs being in hock to a particular lobby group, and then go on to represent those views in the House/argue for policy change (see Gambling lobby). We're not as bad as the states but it ain't far off. Agree. Rules around donations from industries that could influence policy should be looked at. I don't think there is a suggestion anything like that has happened here though. There was a previous story about donations from gambling industry and how that might effect Labour continuing with Tory proposed changes to gambling reform (https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/28/tory-betting-scandal-labour-gambling-industry-regulation). This was before the election and don't know whether a conclusion has become apparent yet. That story also brings us back around to changing the system around party donations. We (as a nation) aren't talking about that sort of thing though. And we aren't talking about it as those controlling the narrative don't want changes to those rules. Instead, we are talking about a Labour peer (and likely family friend) letting Starmer's son use his flat as a quiet place to study. And the issue is that it’s something that any normal person wouldn’t have access to, plus what is in it for the person that has been giving the now PM all these gifts. It’s just stupidity. It’s not as important as how the country as run but for him not to see that it’s easy ammo for the opposition doesn’t fill me with confidence. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 26, 2024 20:40:09 GMT
Sayeeda Warsi finally realises she can't be a Tory any more. It has taken rather longer than it should have and for other reasons than this one but given how critical she's been of the party it's a surprise that the whip wasn't withdrawn any way. Thanks god for that. If I saw her on tv, baffled in amazement like she accidentally joined a party full of cunts and has no idea how she got there one more time I would have kicked my telly in. ‘Well done for speaking out! Nice to see someone with principles!’. No, fuck off. You’re a lifelong Tory and their descent hasn’t been *that* precipitous. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 26, 2024 20:40:27 GMT
Same with Rory
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X201
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Post by X201 on Sept 26, 2024 22:14:46 GMT
The moron levels of the Reform chairman on Question Time is off the scale.
Also a disingenuous, twist the facts arsehole. So Reform is probably the right party for him.
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Post by tincanrocket on Sept 27, 2024 6:01:37 GMT
At least Keir and the gang could see which way the wind was blowing and had the good sense to join the other party |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 27, 2024 7:39:17 GMT
The kid using friends place to study is a total non-story. I can see why gifts should probably have been refused and for how it doesnt look good, but that particular story is utterly inconsequential.
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Post by manfromdelmonte on Sept 27, 2024 8:42:23 GMT
They're just trying to get additional mileage out of the story. Ironically I think the donations story isn't as damaging as the winter fuel payment changes. Neither with the public, or within the party.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 27, 2024 8:54:53 GMT
I think it could probably be beneficial in the long run. A short, sharp kick up the arse about something relatively unserious.
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askew
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Post by askew on Sept 27, 2024 17:12:39 GMT
Two years for throwing soup at a painting? Fuck off.
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Post by Reviewer on Sept 27, 2024 19:43:39 GMT
Although at the same time they’re cunts for throwing soup at a painting.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Sept 28, 2024 1:20:12 GMT
What kind of soup?
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X201
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Post by X201 on Sept 28, 2024 3:20:59 GMT
Looks like it’s a ‘cream of’ type soup, opposed to a broth or chowder
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Sept 28, 2024 4:13:06 GMT
Do they know if it was tinned or freshly made?
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