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Post by JuniorFE on Jul 3, 2024 8:51:45 GMT
Have you seen the Tories latest campaign video? It had a bloke getting up in the dark on the 4th of July because his power had been cut off, then sitting down to look sadly at his various "final notice" energy bills, then looking at a paper that says "FTSE CRASHES", then looking at a news notification on his phone that says "inflation at record highs", before finally deciding he can't afford to go on holiday or fill his car up any more. It closes with a caption that says "48 hours to stop a Starmer super majority". THIS IS LITERALLY A CATALOGUE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY ALREADY HAPPENED UNDER THE TORIES It's the "gaslight" and "project" parts of the GOP playbook. Luckily the Tories aren't as good at obstructing (or the checks and balances in the UK actually work on more than good faith)
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 3, 2024 8:52:24 GMT
otto Which piece was that?
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 3, 2024 8:56:13 GMT
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jul 3, 2024 9:00:51 GMT
Have you seen the Tories latest campaign video? It had a bloke getting up in the dark on the 4th of July because his power had been cut off, then sitting down to look sadly at his various "final notice" energy bills, then looking at a paper that says "FTSE CRASHES", then looking at a news notification on his phone that says "inflation at record highs", before finally deciding he can't afford to go on holiday or fill his car up any more. It closes with a caption that says "48 hours to stop a Starmer super majority". THIS IS LITERALLY A CATALOGUE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY ALREADY HAPPENED UNDER THE TORIES On the 4th July? So before the election is actually over and Sunak is still Prime Minister?
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jul 3, 2024 9:03:21 GMT
Have you seen the Tories latest campaign video? It had a bloke getting up in the dark on the 4th of July because his power had been cut off, then sitting down to look sadly at his various "final notice" energy bills, then looking at a paper that says "FTSE CRASHES", then looking at a news notification on his phone that says "inflation at record highs", before finally deciding he can't afford to go on holiday or fill his car up any more. It closes with a caption that says "48 hours to stop a Starmer super majority". THIS IS LITERALLY A CATALOGUE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY ALREADY HAPPENED UNDER THE TORIES It's the "gaslight" and "project" parts of the GOP playbook. Luckily the Tories aren't as good at obstructing (or the checks and balances in the UK actually work on more than good faith) Also our populace hasn't (yet) succumbed to a personality cult. Give it a decade I reckon those tactics might work better.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jul 3, 2024 9:04:02 GMT
My bad, it shows 2025.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 3, 2024 9:06:08 GMT
As much as I'm enjoying all the rumours of the Tories' imminent demise, I really hope they're not going to reduce turnout tomorrow.
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Post by zisssou on Jul 3, 2024 9:10:14 GMT
Oh no I'll have to cut back on my avocado on toast and skinny vanilla latte. What a shame as I tend to have that daily whilst I charge my Jag at Costa.
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Jul 3, 2024 9:11:06 GMT
It's all bollocks, whoever gets in is going to fuck over some portion of the country/world - and being Mr Average (~£30k income, middle-ish aged, 2.4 kids, house etc.) I'm going to get caught in the crossfire either way, so I may as well stay at home and watch tv.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 3, 2024 9:14:37 GMT
Today will be known as our independence day!!!
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Jul 3, 2024 9:15:25 GMT
It's all bollocks, whoever gets in is going to fuck over some portion of the country/world - and being Mr Average (~£30k income, middle-ish aged, 2.4 kids, house etc.) I'm going to get caught in the crossfire either way, so I may as well stay at home and watch tv. To be fair, it would be nice if the rich got fucked over for a change.
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 3, 2024 9:17:53 GMT
It's the dishonesty on all sides that annoys me. Of course taxes will have to rise. Of course they will. Why? Because of 14 years of austerity and misgovernment, that's why. We're in such a massive hole, because of Tory tax cuts and spending cuts, that it will take us an enormous amount of time and money to claw ourselves back out, if we even can. Nobody is being honest about this.
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Dgzter
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Post by Dgzter on Jul 3, 2024 9:22:51 GMT
Seems pretty certain Labour will get over the line handsomely, but I'd still caution against that Survation MRP poll, tbh.
Appears to be an extension of their previous polling (?), based upon their main fieldwork which was undertaken c. 15 June, which is a quite while ago in psephological terms. Since then several others have fairly consistently identified a potential narrowing of their lead, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out on the day. E.g., the 10 seat prediction for the SNP, though possible, is at the very extreme end of the spectrum -- there will certainly be a ritualised bloodletting there, undoubtedly, but Curtice et al. have the SNP possibly just ahead of Labour this morning, on 24 seats to 22 in Scotland, for instance.
Guess we'll see. My enjoyment will almost entirely be from seeing the Tories, and several individuals in particular, utterly eviscerated. But I find absolutely nothing inspiring about this incoming Labour goverment or Starmer himself. In fact, the bar is so low at the moment, I'll pretty much just take a toning down of the awful rhetoric surrounding the immigration issue and hopefully a move away from all the culture war nonsense.
Everything's just so fucking grim, man. But, anyway, fuck the Tories and Farage.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jul 3, 2024 9:23:10 GMT
It's all bollocks, whoever gets in is going to fuck over some portion of the country/world - and being Mr Average (~£30k income, middle-ish aged, 2.4 kids, house etc.) I'm going to get caught in the crossfire either way, so I may as well stay at home and watch tv. I mean that's the exact kind of person Labour said they wouldn't tax. As it's doubtful the income is coming in as capital gains.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jul 3, 2024 9:26:30 GMT
It's the dishonesty on all sides that annoys me. Of course taxes will have to rise. Of course they will. Why? Because of 14 years of austerity and misgovernment, that's why. We're in such a massive hole, because of Tory tax cuts and spending cuts, that it will take us an enormous amount of time and money to claw ourselves back out, if we even can. Nobody is being honest about this. That's the problem with modern politics in a nutshell in my opinion. They both know they will have to put up taxes, but the Tories outright lie about it and Labour dodge the question. The problem of course is that not only is it reasonable, but also to be expected; any party campaigning on "we will raise taxes" is completely unelectable. When Labour have kind of gone in this direction by publicly abandoning old pledges which they now consider unaffordable like tuition fees, which is the other side of the coin, they are used as examples of "Starmer lies"
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 3, 2024 9:30:41 GMT
Everyone knows taxes will have to rise to pay for things. Everyone knows a party that is honest about it won't get elected.
Sometimes people only have themselves to blame when they complain about politicians being dishonest.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jul 3, 2024 9:31:45 GMT
Another problem with modern politics, is this idea that our leader has to be some sort of larger than life "character". It's constantly held against Starmer that he's not entertaining enough or he's boring. Am I alone in not giving a fucking shit about this? I just want an adult who is half decent at running a country
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Post by dfunked on Jul 3, 2024 9:34:10 GMT
Yeah, he may not be the most exciting sausage, but it'll be refreshing to have a sensible grown up in charge again.
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 3, 2024 9:34:48 GMT
It's the failure of our political media to confront this that is also the problem. Instead of seeking the truth, and challenging all sides for failing to address it, instead they get hung up on the political talking points of the day and the Westminster obsession with cutting/raising taxes without a serious examination of what that actually means and why it might matter. I'm a civil servant so I'm biased but it's a bit fucking rich for the people who set themselves up as the defenders of western civilisation to argue for tax cuts and a smaller state when taxation is literally the definition of civilisation.
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 3, 2024 9:35:34 GMT
Another problem with modern politics, is this idea that our leader has to be some sort of larger than life "character". It's constantly held against Starmer that he's not entertaining enough or he's boring. Am I alone in not giving a fucking shit about this? I just want an adult who is half decent at running a country I think a large plurality of people feel the same way, judging by the polls.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jul 3, 2024 9:43:07 GMT
I remember there being questions being asked along these lines before the initial verdict, which made some think that it was going to be difficult for a jury to find her guilty beyond reasonable doubt. That narrative ended pretty much as soon as the jury returned their guilty verdicts, but it's interesting this is starting to percolate again. It wouldn't surprise me at all if most of the conviction came down to some dubious expert witness evidence, as has happened before countless times.
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Post by Reviewer on Jul 3, 2024 9:43:18 GMT
I don’t want a leader that’s interesting, just one that’s clear where they can be and comes across as competent.
Not sure Starmer quite gets to that point but is certainly a lot better than Sunak.
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 3, 2024 9:43:51 GMT
People don't want to be told the truth but what they want to hear, the last 8 years are evidence of that. The tax issue I think was something that Labour have been too timid on, it's a simple choice do you want to pay nothing (or in the case of the current tax burden a lot) and get fucking shite public services or do you want to potentially pay more (hopefully a fuckton more for the wealthy) and try to get things working again?
I think most people want things to get better whether that leaves them a bit worse off but can at least get a fucking doctors appointment or schools that aren't falling to bits.
The Tories have completely failed to realise that the UK is a damn sight more collectivist than the US that they seem to always lust over.
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 3, 2024 9:45:35 GMT
Let's be clear here, Starmer is obviously and evidently competent and a billion times more so than anything we've seen in the last nine years at least, his front bench team too.
I have serious reservations as regards their policies but not as regards their competence and seriousness.
That alone is easily enough for me to endorse them unequivocally, given where we are.
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Gruf
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Post by Gruf on Jul 3, 2024 10:12:00 GMT
To have a grown up in charge will be novel for sure, been a while.
Whether he make can make a change overall is hard to say given the hole the Tories have dug.
I would settle for a return of a bit of decency and turn away from the small minded mean policies of this lot. Not to mention the restriction to the freedom of speech and protest that has crept in.
Sunak saying recently Britain is a better place to live after 14 years left me gobsmacked.
Hope they get eviscerated
I have not voted for him, but I am in Scotland and we have our own beefs.
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Vortex
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Post by Vortex on Jul 3, 2024 10:20:35 GMT
The tax thing is really annoying, I would happily pay more tax (and technically do pay more being north of the wall), for better services. I think most people would if the media didn't get in such a froth about it.
I don't know why the tories bleat on about it so much, however, they have squeezed the middle so much, while battering those on various benefits, to let their mates get richer.
Definitely time to tax those who can afford it a bit more.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jul 3, 2024 10:24:15 GMT
Very funny that the 'actor' agreed to be in it only if they never show his face
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Post by Vandelay on Jul 3, 2024 10:32:20 GMT
I don't even think Starmer is particularly boring, compared to other people who have had the successes he has had. He has clearly had an accomplished career and been lead on a lot of interesting projects. He comes across as someone who is incredibly determined and focused on achieving the goals he sets himself. He obviously has a strong relationship with his family and that means a lot to him. For me, the most boring part of him is his obsession with football, but I imagine many would find that interesting to discuss over a pint.
He isn't some clown or "a bit of a character", but we should have all learnt by now that people like that are shit at running the country.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jul 3, 2024 10:40:26 GMT
We’ve tried top lad wahey bants politics and the experiment was an unmitigated failure. Stop insisting these people have a personality.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jul 3, 2024 10:43:59 GMT
He has got as much of a personality as Sunak, Truss and May anyway. It's not like they were all a riot.
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