zephro
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Post by zephro on Apr 19, 2024 17:31:22 GMT
I'm assuming this needs legislative change. In which case, I wouldn't worry. It's just electioneering. I saw "next parliament" in there and just thought; cool that's not happening and ignored it. Though not wasting GPs time with minor sick notes doesn't seem like a bad idea; out of all the crap ideas in there. I've only really seen them for vicious flu, where the GP just says stay at home and drink lemsip.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 19, 2024 17:37:55 GMT
Not using up GP's time for a few days off work sounds reasonable. But that doesn't seem to be at all what they're talking about here.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 19, 2024 17:41:18 GMT
You already self-certify for up to a week, so most people never get a sicknote from the GP in the first place.
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deez
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Post by deez on Apr 19, 2024 17:42:24 GMT
Offered an incredible olive branch from the EU, free movement for youngsters. Of course we say no. Can't appear to be backtracking on Brexit!
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Apr 19, 2024 17:50:30 GMT
It's frustrating for the EU to have brought it up to be honest. They know what the situation is here, and should have waited until after the election. Now it will just cause more divisions, hardlines and headlines.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Apr 19, 2024 18:02:02 GMT
Not using up GP's time for a few days off work sounds reasonable. But that doesn't seem to be at all what they're talking about here. As you will note I said one good idea amongst crap ideas. Might just be my life experience but I've only only ever seen sick notes for shit flu around 5 or 6 days off work. When people actually had cancer noone bothered. TBF the one time I needed it for shit flu the GP did make me get x-rayed for pneumonia. But I didn't have it so... Eh. My manager then was a dickhead and didn't take me turning up to work and passing out at face value
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Post by Vandelay on Apr 19, 2024 18:24:35 GMT
The thing is, that isn't the idea. The idea is to get it managed by people who are more interested in getting you back to work than making sure you are healthy. I also fully expect it will be handled by some organisation whose CEO happens to be a big Tory donor.
It isn't going to happen though. This is desperate electioneering and some bullet points for a manifesto that they know they won't have to implement.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Apr 19, 2024 18:36:41 GMT
Yep I also said "next parliament" so I ignored it.
But yeah if it was a nurse or one of those associate definitely not a Doctor people in the NHS going "yeah you're fucking ill here's a note", seems like a good idea.
Our doctor's are incredibly overworked and underpaid, and just paying them more isn't really going to help nor is hiring more doctors as they take fucking ages to train.
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Post by Dougs on Apr 19, 2024 18:58:11 GMT
And when they are trained, they don't find places for them.
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Chopsen
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Post by Chopsen on Apr 19, 2024 20:08:46 GMT
Tbh, this would be a welcome thing for them to take out of GP work. I'd hate to think how many GP work hours are taken up cumulatively on this, and it's all so futile. People don't go in to medicine to police the benefits system. Almost always, if someone says "I am depressed and/or anxious, I can't work, can I have a fit note?" what realistically is the expectation of outcome there? It's not possible to maintain a therapeutic relationship with someone while threatening them with loss of income.
The groundwork for shifting this out of GP has already been done. NHSE allows full text access to patient's records in real time online, and a year or two ago the regulations were tweaked so non-doctor clinicians could do fit notes.
The real problem with unemployment due to mental health are deep rooted and not going to be solved by this initiative. Lack of adequate housing, relative poverty, loneliness, lack of support networks, the gutting of social care, poor support for children with educational and behavioural issues. These were all a long time brewing. Austerity dowsed the problem with petrol and COVID and lockdown lit the match. Even further back I think we have deeper problems as a society: lack of social support generally, social isolation, atomised lifestyle with a focus on individualism and consumerism. No wonder we're all fucking miserable.
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Post by Dougs on Apr 19, 2024 21:21:37 GMT
As Zephro says, taking it off GPs to give to other NHS health care professionals may make some.sense. But we all know the plan is to give fat contract to private companies.
And agree re issues with poverty/health
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Post by Danno on Apr 20, 2024 0:20:16 GMT
As Zephro says, taking it off GPs to give to other NHS health care professionals may make some.sense. But we all know the plan is to give fat contract to private companies. And agree re issues with poverty/health Serco/Crapita/ANOther linked to his FiLs interests will get it.
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Post by minimatt on Apr 20, 2024 5:24:33 GMT
the minister (honestly forgot which one) on r4 yesterday morning when asked if it'll be doctors making decisions replied " it'll be healthcare professionals", asked if it'll be nurses replied " it'll be healthcare professionals". It'll absolutely be people who've done a two week course at serco. It'll absolutely kill people as a result.
in a whole package of measures i also saw removal of PIP from mental illness conditions and acceleration of phase out of legacy disability benefits (ESA etc) onto universal credit with its attendent repeat check-ins and mandatory re-assessments. repeatedly requiring people to come in to see if their leg has grown back or if their cerebal palsy has got better or if they're faking their schizophrenia will also absolutely fucking kill people as a result
edit: and honestly i'm thinking GPs actually are best placed to do this - yes it places a burden on GPs but GPs are the ones who know their patient - shifting that burden onto patients to explain to the health assessor the intracies of their condition and the impact of the various methods employed to improve it helps no-one, least of all the actual disabled person. We move from a system where a GP thinks "I saw this person on tuesday, their white cell count is still on the floor and blood pressure through the roof, I'm starting them on this drug to address fluid build up which I know knocks people for six when combined with the steroids and anti-biotics they're on, of course I'm signing them off" - to a system where the half dead patient has to gather and present all that evidence to a "health care professional" and explain it to them because they don't have the training, and then has to die of malnutrition because the "health care professional" got it wrong and the patient just doesn't have the strength to argue the toss
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 20, 2024 6:23:01 GMT
Yep I also said "next parliament" so I ignored it. But yeah if it was a nurse or one of those associate definitely not a Doctor people in the NHS going "yeah you're fucking ill here's a note", seems like a good idea. Our doctor's are incredibly overworked and underpaid, and just paying them more isn't really going to help nor is hiring more doctors as they take fucking ages to train. Saying 'sick note' makes it sound like that's what it's talking about, but they seem to be talking much more about long term illnesses and disabilities.
I don't remember the details, but even 15+ years ago the town I was living in had a clinic that was staffed mainly by nurses, and you were encouraged to go there, rather than the doctor's surgery, if it was something minor or something they could handle. I assumed that was standard.
(though I will say that the only time I used it, for a really bad sore throat, I went there twice over a week and the nurse told me it was nothing. Then I finally went to the GP because of the pain and he immediately referred me to hospital and I ended up on an antibiotic drip. So... maybe not the best endorsement!)
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Reviewer
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Post by Reviewer on Apr 20, 2024 8:16:53 GMT
The dr's around here uses the nurse for minor sick note things. The nurses tend to deal with most things unless it's obviously a bit more serious.
One irritating thing is the amount of things that get referred to pharmacists, who are also already too busy as well, but they never know what the problem is. Had one say they thought our daughter had sepsis, she didn't but just looked tired and needed a drink (which she used to be rubbish at getting for herself).
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 20, 2024 18:42:07 GMT
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Post by larrybong on Apr 20, 2024 19:55:15 GMT
Have you ever been to Hartlepool? He sounds like the perfect candidate 😃
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Post by Danno on Apr 20, 2024 23:06:16 GMT
Do they just eat each other (not sexily)
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Post by manfromdelmonte on Apr 21, 2024 10:15:00 GMT
To Armin Meiwes, it's the sexy way.
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nexus6
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Post by nexus6 on Apr 21, 2024 15:25:41 GMT
The drunk dog man has resigned!
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 21, 2024 15:40:00 GMT
He's resigned from the party not his seat unfortunately so no by-election.
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Post by minimatt on Apr 21, 2024 15:49:49 GMT
so the party says it can't find anything wrong, he says he's done nothing wrong, he draws his MP salary till the next election, nothing to see here, lets all move on, something something ANGELA RAYNER
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Post by peekconfusion on Apr 21, 2024 15:58:10 GMT
so the party says it can't find anything wrong, he says he's done nothing wrong, he draws his MP salary till the next election, nothing to see here, lets all move on, something something ANGELA RAYNER No, no. They've moved on to Sir Mark Rowley now.
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Post by apollo on Apr 21, 2024 16:25:51 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit.
Police under funded and criminals receiving laughable sentences (sometimes don't get prison) Politics is more toxic than ever with people becoming more ultra far left and the far right wing seem to have more of a platform.
Yeah things were never perfect but it feels a lot worse now
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 21, 2024 16:57:30 GMT
Think this sums up the situation with the NHS quite well featuring someone actually complaining to Blair about getting a GP appointment too soon...
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Apr 21, 2024 17:05:32 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit It’s worse if you leave the country for any length of time and see how stagnant we have become compared to pretty much anywhere.
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Post by apollo on Apr 21, 2024 17:50:27 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit It’s worse if you leave the country for any length of time and see how stagnant we have become compared to pretty much anywhere. True, I moved back late 2022 (but I don't miss the US companies shitty vacation entitlements)
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Post by stuz359 on Apr 21, 2024 22:47:02 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit.
Police under funded and criminals receiving laughable sentences (sometimes don't get prison) Politics is more toxic than ever with people becoming more ultra far left and the far right wing seem to have more of a platform.
Yeah things were never perfect but it feels a lot worse now
'Ultra far Left' is quite a statement. Could you qualify that? What do you consider to be 'ultra far left?'
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Post by Danno on Apr 22, 2024 0:31:18 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit.
Police under funded and criminals receiving laughable sentences (sometimes don't get prison) Politics is more toxic than ever with people becoming more ultra far left and the far right wing seem to have more of a platform.
Yeah things were never perfect but it feels a lot worse now
'Ultra far Left' is quite a statement. Could you qualify that? What do you consider to be 'ultra far left?' 10 years gulag for you
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 22, 2024 4:47:45 GMT
I really feel fed up with how the UK has gone down hill, it does feel a lot worse in the last year. and a bit.
Police under funded and criminals receiving laughable sentences (sometimes don't get prison) Politics is more toxic than ever with people becoming more ultra far left and the far right wing seem to have more of a platform.
Yeah things were never perfect but it feels a lot worse now
It's weird, because we've had 15 years of the Conservatives: - being tough on crime and the causes of crime - cutting taxes and unnecessary waste in government - improving the efficiency of the NHS and other government departments It's almost as if their basic logic underpinning their goals doesn't add up. Maybe instead of spending the past few decades moaning about immigrants and the EU, they should have focused on investing in world class education, public services and improving the economy and people's lives?
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