UK Politics Thread

Well, I have alternatives that are less shit than both.

On the other hand, if I lived in the states I absolutely wouldn't vote, because over there is the choice of "do you want an insane geriatric stochastic terrorist, or the guy who is actively supporting a genocide and fully had the power to protect women's rights but actively chose not to?"

Some of it might see how you look at the act of voting. To me, it's an active endorsement of what someone or a group stand for. I wouldn't endorse someone I think is a piece of shit just because they're less of a piece of shit than someone else. There's barely any indication that Labour would actually do anything to improve the country. So it's not even a choice between shit and less shit, it's a choice between shit and "maybe might be less shit but who knows".

That's fair - I'm not trying to guilt anyone, just trying to be realistic. Anyone is welcome to vote for whoever they like.

With the media control in our country I just can't see the status quo of two parties changing in a long, long time. It's been like this for a hundred years.

That's the thing which I think some people forget; change is small and incremental, it's not overnight and you can't just change a population's mindset overnight. For the record I do hope there is change after the Tories because my god not living in the country it always surprises me how much damage they've wrought whenever I come back to visit.

Maybe Tory-lite is genuinely the best thing they could be. Getting into power is one thing but keeping it is what’s really important. Labour won’t get anything progressive done with the odd election win every few decades. They need to get into power and stay in power, and the only way to do that is to appeal to the largest possible base for the longterm. 

With regards to change, can idealism underpin practical application? I mean if you want to implement perfection it doesn't accommodate the system that you are intending to change. Idealism is binary, it either is or it isn't, there is no degree of graduation. Which is my problem with Corbyn. Pragmatism accommodates the practical reality and adapts it.

But he never did cost anything up and show it was possible. He rarely talked about anything domestic at all and when he did it was just crowd-pleasing stuff like Robin Hood taxes and free broadband with zero substance. The other 90% of the time he was ranting about the Middle East.  

I don't mean to come across too approving of Corbyn, I do think he's also a twat. But in his own special way.

I think you were right not to vote Corby, kal.

I struggled putting a tick next to the Labour box that year, especially given the local MP was another of his "well Israel fund the secrets" twats.

Out of interest - and I recognise this is a nerd gaming forum of people scared of the outdoors - what would it take for you lot to start picking up actual pitchforks and battering down doors?

I voted Corbyn last time as I knew LD would not win. I hate JC but I hate boris even more

Did you actually read the 2017 Labour Manifesto? They actually did the costing, John McDonnell was actively engaging with financial institutions to lay the groundwork for it. I just don't see anything radical in there at all.  

Corbyns problem was that he had a lot of problems. Its weird because there *was* a concerted effort to denigrate him in the press because he was going to go after rich people which turned vast swathes of the country into 'anyone but Corbyn' zealots. They were absolutely ruthless with him in a way that's rare even for this country. But, equally, he would genuinely have been absolutely fucking useless as PM.

I think the attacks were so bad its really easy for supporters to hand wave his faults away which is a shame as there doesn't seem to be any lessons learned for the Corbyn era other than a grim siege mentality.