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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 15:17:04 GMT
Gonna get messy
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 15:19:11 GMT
Gonna be really hard for them to not get some sort of points penalty.
If I was a betting man
They will (red bull) be kicked out of the constructors (not really a penalty as came 2nd)
Max to keep 2021 title
Fine
Reduction in wind tunnel time this winter
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 15:20:59 GMT
I don't think they will. But if they do take max's 21 title then red bull won't take that lying down and will threaten to withdraw along with AT from f1. FIA won't want that hassle.
Bottom line is the red bull is illegal with material gain through over spending.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 10, 2022 15:34:00 GMT
Its between 1-2 million dollars apparently, it will be a fine (has to be the most ironic punishment ever)
Its one of those situations where I find it very hard to believe they aren't all creatively cooking the books in some way, especially at the top. Especially rules in their infancy like these, it's loophole city. Red Bull's breaches were supposedly related to catering and staff absences which gives a small taste of how open to abuse it will be.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 10, 2022 15:53:42 GMT
It's perfectly normal to pay the person who does the dishes $150K.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 10, 2022 15:58:55 GMT
All meals to be eaten at Salt Bae's restaurant.
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 15:58:59 GMT
Don't think anyone will truly know the full amount. However if that is the excuse then is that because they allocated more money elsewhere?
We play devil's advocate.
You overspend on development by your 5% but show the books as the "overspend" being allocated to something "trivial" such as catering?
Unless it's much more transparent in terms of dates of spending etc etc but I doubt it.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 10, 2022 16:01:41 GMT
F1 is going the Hollywood accounting way.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 10, 2022 16:13:53 GMT
It's a pity the FIA went so hard down the 'nothing to see here' path after Abu Dhabi. This is an entirely legitimate and sporting way to rectify that particular wrong but I just can't see them backtracking on that now regardless.
It's cheating though, plain and simple, even if accidental (highly unlikely if it's millions), it's still a big advantage. If there's no sporting element to the penalty every F1 team will see it as an opportunity to use fines to buy success and the arms race will be back on.
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Oct 10, 2022 16:27:33 GMT
I don’t know how they are going to judge what a minor overspend penalty will incur. Was it 0.02mm extra gap in Hamilton rear wing that got him demoted to the back of the grid in Brazil last year.
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 16:30:27 GMT
I would also argue they need to come down extremely hard on this because if they don't you have fans media etc wondering if any results will change 12 months after every season. Which is even more damaging. Its the time to show that any over spend will be devastating for a team.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 10, 2022 16:40:27 GMT
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 10, 2022 17:59:03 GMT
Really, it's time for a wholly independent governing body to be formed to look after the sporting side of the series. There are far too many tenuous links between teams and the FIA for it ever to be pure. It isn't being mentioned much but the mere fact this was open news getting on for a fortnight ago is a huge fucking problem in itself.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 10, 2022 18:49:53 GMT
Perhaps but don't forget they intentionally put a 5 year (I think) statute of limitations on these rules to encourage whistle blowers who've changed teams. Also the fact the rumours were correct, does support the idea that the incestuous nature of the paddock means the truth well usually come out at some point. Really all it needs is an effective deterrent and it's proof the system works. Without it, it's immediately meaningless and we're back on the road to it getting abandoned.
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 18:54:23 GMT
Just going to be a legal mess. The teams have to agree on the sanctions given. Fully expecting ferrari/merc to heavily push the fia here.
Red bull are never going to accept anything that would please ALL the teams. So it's just going to keep rumbling on.
Just a mess
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 10, 2022 19:06:51 GMT
I mean McLaren got fined £100m and excluded from a season. Schumacher for excluded from a season. BAR got banned for a couple of races. Not saying that will happen in this case but there is precedent for heavy penalties for flagrant cheating. None of those actually went to court in the end.
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 10, 2022 19:31:05 GMT
True but less room for interpretation there.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 10, 2022 19:51:33 GMT
I'll grant you the FIAs statement isn't exactly reassuring. However I have more faith in the rest of the teams kicking up such a stink the FIA has no choice in an effective 9 v 2 scenario (Ferrari count double).
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 22, 2022 23:04:56 GMT
Something else not really discussed is the age of the key decision makers at Red Bull. Mateschitz is 78, Marko is 79 and Newey is 63. They'll surely have to make some changes in next 5 years, even if Horner himself has plenty of time left. Sad news about Mateschitz. I hadn't heard any rumours or anything when I posted the above.
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Post by damagedinc on Oct 22, 2022 23:18:58 GMT
Wonder where this leaves red bull, he was a big fan of racing obviously and the next owners may not feel the same.
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Post by Dougs on Oct 23, 2022 7:40:24 GMT
Will all come down to the bottom line.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 23, 2022 19:07:22 GMT
Very poor from Russell.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 23, 2022 19:08:40 GMT
Amateur hour. He doesn't seem the best wheel to wheel.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 23, 2022 19:11:24 GMT
5 seconds is a joke.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 23, 2022 19:11:56 GMT
It's ridiculous and Sky desperate to cover his arse.
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 23, 2022 19:14:11 GMT
"Sainz moved over on him" is peak fucking Sky. Their bias isn't even subtle.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 23, 2022 19:15:16 GMT
Russell deserves a 5s pen as predominantly to blame but after seeing the wider angle, it wasn't as bad as I first thought. Sainz hesitated slightly on the throttle and also took an unusually sharp exit back across the track to the left (perhaps trying to get clean air over his front wing for the right hander). Sainz had every right to do that of course, but I can understand Russell not expecting it.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 23, 2022 19:17:57 GMT
He only had eyes for running Hamilton wide. It was as amateur as it gets at that particular corner.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 23, 2022 19:19:01 GMT
Unfortunately, Sainz was the only hope for this race being interesting (short of mechanical issues for the RBs). Even if Hamilton could catch Max (which it looks like he can't), he doesn't have the car to pass. Pretty gutted by that T1 incident. It's like a red card in the first 10mins of a football match, ruined the spectacle before it's properly started.
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Post by muddyfunster on Oct 23, 2022 19:21:27 GMT
Really surprised the Astons are faster than the Mclarens around here.
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