nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 21, 2024 12:00:24 GMT
You lot will be having a go at James Pond next.
Strangely enough, the Japanese version of Shenmue had real Coca-Cola vending machines but they were taken out of the Western release because Sega didn't have the rights to use them, which suggests they doing the whole product placement thing completely wrong.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,345
|
Post by cubby on Oct 21, 2024 12:03:48 GMT
Can confirm, played Zool recently, was not as good as I remembered.
|
|
ned
New Member
Posts: 496
|
Post by ned on Oct 21, 2024 12:06:29 GMT
I just want a future where you can't buy anything, physical or digital.
Nothing can be downloaded just streamed from mega servers.
Each publisher can have their own subscription streaming service. You will need to commit to minimum 12-24 month terms.
Multiple tiers with a premium slightly reduced ad tier with early access and exclusive content based on how much additional you spend in the cash shop.
All tiers can have ads, even interrupting game play like ads do on youtube videos, as long as its no more than 2-3 every 10 mins of gameplay, i dont mind that.
You still have to pay current full price to stream the individual games and dlc on top of sub fees, £80 to £100, thats fair to me. If you also commit to spending an additional set amount per title in the cash shop per month per game you can get a small discount.
Obviously, although you have paid full price to access and stream a game, only a small selection of titles will be up at one time, there will be a rotation in the catalogue, so not everything will always be accessible.
In addition to these costs you will still need to a fee per minute of streaming to ensure the integrity of the service
Ofc course if you wish to stream a game during peak times there will be a surcharge per minute of play during that time. You can reduce this by buying a weekly network pass which gives you 30% off the pay per minute charges.
The services will need maintenance so there will be a minimum of 6 hours downtime daily. You will be able to buy a premium pass to reduce this to 2 hours.
Also forgot to say plans for pausing and saving progress will of course be available
|
|
rftp
New Member
Posts: 675
|
Post by rftp on Oct 21, 2024 12:18:31 GMT
I bet you've got a heated seat subscription in your car, haven't you?  |
|
apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by apollo on Oct 21, 2024 12:26:36 GMT
Also forgot to say plans for pausing and saving progress will of course be available But for only for Ultimate platinum tier customers*, pleb customers with core, basic and standard tiers can do one
*Passport details need to be sent to the game company, who will host the details on unsecure server and you can't sue the company when the details get leaked in a hack.
|
|
|
|
Post by theguy on Oct 21, 2024 12:30:41 GMT
ned What an absolutely bizarre post. Can't seriously believe anyone would want such a braindead and moronic system. I mean, where on earth are the gambling mechanics?
|
|
apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by apollo on Oct 21, 2024 12:37:23 GMT
what about limited editions of games that are NFTs?
(no doubt any arsehat monetization managers at publishers are reading through this are shouting at their underlings, "write that down, write that down!")
|
|
nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 21, 2024 12:41:28 GMT
|
|
ned
New Member
Posts: 496
|
Post by ned on Oct 21, 2024 12:53:51 GMT
All good points, sorry all, clearly not thought this through properly.
I'll reflect on it and see if i can come up with a proposal which leans much more towards monetisation than the current consumer focused one.
|
|
|
|
Post by dangerousdave on Oct 21, 2024 13:44:26 GMT
I’m not against streaming and renting being the primary model, but I won’t pay for any of it if I didn’t feel it was worth it. I do like having both options though.
|
|
Aunty Treats
Junior Member
Delivering tasty treats to the townsfolk
Posts: 1,021
|
Post by Aunty Treats on Oct 21, 2024 13:55:06 GMT
All good points, sorry all, clearly not thought this through properly. I'll reflect on it and see if i can come up with a proposal which leans much more towards monetisation than the current consumer focused one. Need a roadmap |
|
|
|
Post by simple on Oct 21, 2024 13:55:59 GMT
I know I’m a hypocrite surrounded by mountains of plastic based physical media while streaming nearly all my tv but wouldn’t streaming something the size of a AAA game have a big carbon footprint?
Streaming music already has a far far bigger one than downloading or physical distribution and songs are only a handful of mb
|
|
nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 21, 2024 15:20:32 GMT
I don't think the size of the game really makes a difference, you're streaming the generated output not the assets and code.
|
|
Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,984 
|
Post by Rich on Oct 21, 2024 15:35:26 GMT
ned Some great ideas there. A big improvement on your model though would be to make sure all games are episodic so that if the first parts don't sell well, time and money isn't wasted finishing them.
|
|
zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,941
|
Post by zagibu on Oct 21, 2024 17:53:57 GMT
A 4K stream is a 4K stream, it doesn't matter if it's a movie or the rendered output for a game. So if you render on the server and stream the output to the client, it will be the same data transfer as watching movies for the same amount of time. And yes, in the case of 4k streaming, you'd quickly surpass the installed size of a game.
In theory, you could also stream game data and render on the client. This, with some caching, could be more efficient than the server rendering method (if the player plays a reasonable amount of time), and could actually even result in less data transferred than an installed game, for example if somebody never touches multiplayer mode, so the multiplayer assets never have to be streamed to them. Could also be multiplexed (same data sent to multiple clients at the same time). But the game would have to be made for that.
[Edit] Actually, the latter method is not really streaming, more like on-demand asset loading. I bet it would be sold as "streaming", though.
|
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 21, 2024 17:59:48 GMT
That already exists to some extent. The new MS Flight Simulator does streaming assets, in full on mode its estimated to download about 80gigs an hour.
|
|
|
|
Post by technoish on Oct 21, 2024 18:04:21 GMT
It's ok, the big tech companies are ordering mini nuclear reactors to ensure their increasing data center needs are carbon free. It will rescue AI! No issues there at all  |
|
pizzacrunch
New Member
Enter your message here...
Posts: 150
|
Post by pizzacrunch on Oct 21, 2024 18:15:27 GMT
I know I’m a hypocrite surrounded by mountains of plastic based physical media while streaming nearly all my tv but wouldn’t streaming something the size of a AAA game have a big carbon footprint? Streaming music already has a far far bigger one than downloading or physical distribution and songs are only a handful of mb Don't worry. A small portion of your subscription will go towards planting a tree*. As a reward, you will be given the chance to purchase a NFT of your tree for a fee. *You will be charged an additional 7.99 per month for upkeep of the tree. |
|
|
|
Post by Chopsen on Oct 21, 2024 18:33:39 GMT
Streaming music already has a far far bigger one than downloading or physical distribution and songs are only a handful of mb Huh, is that the case? I would have thought music streaming would be virtually a rounding error given people doing netflix and the like all over the place... |
|
|
|
Post by Chopsen on Oct 21, 2024 18:36:09 GMT
That already exists to some extent. The new MS Flight Simulator does streaming assets, in full on mode its estimated to download about 80gigs an hour. What the eff?
How is that feasible? That loads. So everybody playing it on full fat is being served all that data simultaneously? How does that even work economically?
Presumably the answer is I'm an old fart and data of this size isn't such a challenge any more and i still think in terms of 3.5" floppies
|
|
nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 21, 2024 18:54:25 GMT
In theory, you could also stream game data and render on the client. This, with some caching, could be more efficient than the server rendering method (if the player plays a reasonable amount of time), and could actually even result in less data transferred than an installed game, for example if somebody never touches multiplayer mode, so the multiplayer assets never have to be streamed to them. Could also be multiplexed (same data sent to multiple clients at the same time). But the game would have to be made for that. I mean, that's just basically downloading the game and removes the main benefit of streaming that you don't need expensive hardware to be able to play the game. |
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 21, 2024 18:55:47 GMT
It’s map data streaming for the most part. There’s a baseline mesh/texture in the game itself but when you get in close it’ll pull through high quality mesh and textures on the fly.
Flight Simulator 2020 had it to a smaller level too.
|
|
|
|
Post by simple on Oct 21, 2024 19:04:24 GMT
Streaming music already has a far far bigger one than downloading or physical distribution and songs are only a handful of mb Huh, is that the case? I would have thought music streaming would be virtually a rounding error given people doing netflix and the like all over the place... My bad, I just meant downloading or physical forms of music. I think crypto and NFTs might be the worst offenders, then tv then music but might be wrong about that. |
|
|
|
Post by skalpadda on Oct 21, 2024 19:05:40 GMT
That already exists to some extent. The new MS Flight Simulator does streaming assets, in full on mode its estimated to download about 80gigs an hour. What the eff?
How is that feasible? That loads. So everybody playing it on full fat is being served all that data simultaneously? How does that even work economically?
Presumably the answer is I'm an old fart and data of this size isn't such a challenge any more and i still think in terms of 3.5" floppies
It's still loads, kind of, but very doable today. 20-something MB/second, so you'd be pretty much maxing out a 200Mbit connection. Given how long people tend to play games for I bet the bandwidth costs add up for Microsoft, but in terms of internet traffic overall it's probably not even a blip compared to big video streaming companies. |
|
zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,941
|
Post by zagibu on Oct 21, 2024 22:21:43 GMT
I mean, that's just basically downloading the game and removes the main benefit of streaming that you don't need expensive hardware to be able to play the game. That's a benefit of server-side rendering, not of streaming. Streaming has a colloquial use that basically means background loading, and a technical use that means you don't serve complete files but indexed bytechunks. I do realise that companies who offer such subscriptions that render on the server also just call that streaming (or cloud gaming). In my opinion, it has more similarities to remote desktop solutions than to streaming, but I guess you could imagine the server recording the gameplay and then streaming it to the client, so maybe the term is not even that far-fetched.
But yes, you lose that if you "stream" game assets and render on the client. Of course, in server-side rendering you still pay the hardware indirectly through the subscription service, but at least when you're not playing, somebody else can use it, so there should be some cost savings there as well. But then again, most people physically close enough to the hardware to use it for "streaming" their games probably play more or less at the same time (in the evenings and on weekends), so the cost savings might not be that big after all. So really, all you get is lower upfront costs. And freedom from having to deal with hardware problems and upgrades (but this freedom is of course priced into the subscription fee). |
|
nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 22, 2024 7:16:58 GMT
I mean, that's just basically downloading the game and removes the main benefit of streaming that you don't need expensive hardware to be able to play the game. That's a benefit of server-side rendering, not of streaming. Streaming has a colloquial use that basically means background loading, and a technical use that means you don't serve complete files but indexed bytechunks. I do realise that companies who offer such subscriptions that render on the server also just call that streaming (or cloud gaming). In my opinion, it has more similarities to remote desktop solutions than to streaming, but I guess you could imagine the server recording the gameplay and then streaming it to the client, so maybe the term is not even that far-fetched.
A stream implies linear processing of sequences of bytes. With video and audio you are watching / listening to them from start to finish and are downloading the parts you need as you progress through. Yes, the data can be byte ranges into a single large file, or lots of tiny files on the server, but regardless those files are organised in a way that enables their segmentation and immediate use when received by the client. I'd say what you are describing isn't really streaming as I doubt the data files would be usable until the complete file has been downloaded and it's unlikely the data will be used in a linear fashion. Anyway this is an esoteric and dull distinction. The point is that having the game rendered on someone else's server and the results streamed to you is a service that you can sell. No-one is going to pay extra to download data on demand while still using their own hardware for the rendering.
|
|
Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,600
|
Post by Tuffty on Oct 22, 2024 17:13:03 GMT
Fuck Ubisoft. Truly on a real downward spiral.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2024 17:49:08 GMT
On the other hand I get it. If it doesn't make enough to justify a sequel then yeah it isn't going to get made. But also having a large diverse portfolio is supposed to spread the risk so bigger popular games like your Assassin's Creed stuff are supposed to support lower budget, diverse fare.
|
|
nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by nazo on Oct 22, 2024 17:50:44 GMT
That sucks, think that was the only game I've bought all year. I really enjoyed it.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,982
|
Post by zephro on Oct 22, 2024 20:04:43 GMT
I mean if you want to be super boring a stream is just any sequence of elements of any kind delivered over time, without there definitely being a fixed ending necessarily as that'd just make it a list.
|
|
