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Post by simple on Jul 19, 2024 6:44:07 GMT
How has a remaster of Daikatana not happened yet?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it had surprisingly well gameplay and design wise once you give it an HD rub up
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 7:08:25 GMT
Civvie did a video on it. Apparently it gets a lot better after the first area. Still has a few problems though, especially the companion AI
I would most likely buy a remaster
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 19, 2024 7:37:58 GMT
The problem is that the opening levels are so go-awful that no-one ever gets to the later ones. iirc they do get better, but by that point you run into the issue of the AI companions being an annoying liability.
The AI companions issue seems fixable, if it wasn't already, by making them invulnerable and giving you a way to teleport them to your location.
But I don't see how you fix the opening levels without redesigning them a fair bit. Not sure how much work/cost that would add to a remaster that's already gonna be a bit of a niche product.
(Though I will admit to picking it up a couple of years back, mainly out of morbid curiosity I guess).
A remaster of Sin would be better.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 7:42:53 GMT
There's already a fan patch for PC that does that for the AI companions
They could also just add a level select like in the Doom/Quake releases. Though I imagine anyone buying a remaster would know what they're getting into anyway
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 19, 2024 7:53:32 GMT
I thought there might be. I guess they could put a level select and a note saying "FYI, these opening levels are all shit and you might want to skip to level xxx"  I forget if you keep your weapons and ammo from the previous level, but if so then a level select might need to give you some free equipment. Starting a later doom level with just the pistol was always a pain in the ass |
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Duffking
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 8:03:29 GMT
Was trying to play OG Doom2 on Switch last night. It feels weird playing with a controller. Doesn't feel right and seems to make things like dodging imp fireballs while targeting much harder. I assume when I played it originally it was with mouse and keyboard, although there's a small chance I got through it on keyboard alone. If so, I was much more committed back then. Maybe I'll get used to it. The newer ports have some noticeable input lag and deadzone issues despite being pretty full featured unfortunately. My preferred way to play wads etc is with nugget doom on my pc or deck. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 19, 2024 8:09:28 GMT
How has a remaster of Daikatana not happened yet? I wouldn’t be surprised if it had surprisingly well gameplay and design wise once you give it an HD rub up I own it. It err does not. |
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Post by simple on Jul 19, 2024 8:13:04 GMT
Just let me be Romero’s bitch
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 19, 2024 8:19:37 GMT
You realize being his bitch actually means wandering around a green swamp while being shot at by tiny green frogs and tiny green bugs that you can't see clearly, while looking for an exit that you can't see clearly?
It's not as sexy as it sounds.
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Duffking
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 8:34:17 GMT
Yeah it's not a game that'll be magically better with the AI fixed. It still just generally sucks design wise.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 9:50:21 GMT
I haven't had any issues with the thesda ports of Doom. I think it's perfectly suited to dual analogue sticks Daikatana would be fun to play just because it's interesting. At least it's got personality and history. The multiplayer is suppose to be quite good
I've also heard that every time someone says something bad about Daikatana, one of John Romero's hairs falls out. Stop it
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 19, 2024 10:01:59 GMT
I didn't notice any lag at the time, but I guess it's possible.
I think it's more my rustiness with dual analogue fps, but also maybe OG Doom being more about fast movement and circle strafing, which has never suited controllers as much (imho)
iirc some of the later levels are almost like first person bullet hell with the number of imp fireballs you're dancing around while still targeting and shooting. Which apparently I can't do with sticks. So it changes the way I'm playing to something more like a modern shooter... stick and move.
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 10:03:51 GMT
Since I play a decent amount of doom mods and wads I thought I'd share some setup tips for source ports. There's loads of options depending on what you're after. If you want maximum compatability you have GZDoom. Personally I only use it for mods that require it though. It has some subtle gameplay changes that can feel odd, and it also just has WAY too many graphics options, with the default config making it look absolutely dreadful with terrible texture filtering etc. It does have good mouselook implementation for looking up and down and a hardware renderer to remove the warping, BUT again, it's hard to make it look right. I'd suggest using the Vanilla Essence mod to have a single switch you can press to turn off all the ugly shit and make it look like Doom.
Otherwise there's an enormous amount of other options, my personal favourite is Nugget Doom, itself a fork of a port called Woof. The main thing for me is that it feels very much like vanilla doom but has all the right modern bells and whistles without going overboard and has a great custom HUD selection. I always thought the status bar was cool and all, but on a widescreen device I've never liked it. I like the QLike HUD from that page, especially when playing on Steam Deck:
Other favoured options are DSDA-Doom, originally meant for speedrunning but probably the best option for just running doom at high frame rates and resolutions. It's less good if you're like me and like it to look a bit more pixellated. But it does have by far the best hardware renderer of the lot, which basically means you can look up/down properly while still replicating the look of the original. I'd use this one more if it had a few more HUD options like Nugget does.
There's also Doom Retro which is fun, it enforces a low resolution (2x what the original game's was) so it looks very pixel-y which I like for Doom, but adds a lot of flair/bells and whistles. Fun way to play stuff, but I dislike that so much of its options are hidden in the dev console instead of the menu.
TL;DR: Ideally GZDoom for mods and nothing else, either DSDA or Nugget Doom depending on if you want a hardware renderer and ability to look up/down or not.
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 10:08:16 GMT
I think the Bethesda port input lag is largely limited to the Switch version of it, it was sort of fixed on the other consoles by adding a vsync toggle but for whatever reason they weren't allowed to put it in the Switch version. It still feels noticeably worse than source ports for me though, I assume because it's running in Unity Engine as a wrapper which means Unity is handling input and feeding it through to the game underneath.
IIRC the Switch version has the most input lag in handheld mode, I forget what the technical reason is but there's something hardware related that basically means everything has more input lag in handheld mode on switch.
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Post by dfunked on Jul 19, 2024 10:54:43 GMT
I've just nabbed a Daikatana key after you boomers going on about it... Not sure why I never even bothered trying it. Masters of Doom piqued my interest recently.
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 11:03:43 GMT
Everything you need to know about playing Daikatana without playing it.
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Post by Nemesis on Jul 19, 2024 11:10:48 GMT
Maybe I should give this Doom 2016 game a go you lot keep going on about …
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 19, 2024 11:12:18 GMT
I've just nabbed a Daikatana key after you boomers going on about it... Not sure why I never even bothered trying it. Masters of Doom piqued my interest recently. Enjoy fighting errr the robot dragonflies and robot frog enemies in a lighting that can only be described as Mountain Dew. |
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 11:51:07 GMT
And don't leave without your buddy Superfly
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Duffking
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 12:11:02 GMT
Or use the mod and in fact, do leave without him. It's for the best.
Of course the true experience is to suffer with them.
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Post by quadfather on Jul 19, 2024 12:34:01 GMT
Since I play a decent amount of doom mods and wads I thought I'd share some setup tips for source ports. There's loads of options depending on what you're after. If you want maximum compatability you have GZDoom. Personally I only use it for mods that require it though. It has some subtle gameplay changes that can feel odd, and it also just has WAY too many graphics options, with the default config making it look absolutely dreadful with terrible texture filtering etc. It does have good mouselook implementation for looking up and down and a hardware renderer to remove the warping, BUT again, it's hard to make it look right. I'd suggest using the Vanilla Essence mod to have a single switch you can press to turn off all the ugly shit and make it look like Doom.
Otherwise there's an enormous amount of other options, my personal favourite is Nugget Doom, itself a fork of a port called Woof. The main thing for me is that it feels very much like vanilla doom but has all the right modern bells and whistles without going overboard and has a great custom HUD selection. I always thought the status bar was cool and all, but on a widescreen device I've never liked it. I like the QLike HUD from that page, especially when playing on Steam Deck:
Other favoured options are DSDA-Doom, originally meant for speedrunning but probably the best option for just running doom at high frame rates and resolutions. It's less good if you're like me and like it to look a bit more pixellated. But it does have by far the best hardware renderer of the lot, which basically means you can look up/down properly while still replicating the look of the original. I'd use this one more if it had a few more HUD options like Nugget does.
There's also Doom Retro which is fun, it enforces a low resolution (2x what the original game's was) so it looks very pixel-y which I like for Doom, but adds a lot of flair/bells and whistles. Fun way to play stuff, but I dislike that so much of its options are hidden in the dev console instead of the menu.
TL;DR: Ideally GZDoom for mods and nothing else, either DSDA or Nugget Doom depending on if you want a hardware renderer and ability to look up/down or not.
Thanks for this breakdown. I found it very useful. I think I use zdoom but it may actually be gzdoom, I honestly can't remember but I like it for the decent mouse implementation as you say. I also like the way it displays the ammo and keys. I'm due a run through of them all again soon and I might include hell revealed 1 and 2 if I'm feeling I have the energy for them too. I'll start with vanilla though to warm up. And @bill, I'm with you on the mouse and keyboard. I can use controllers but I'm never going to be able to pull off what I can with the mouse. It feels like I'm not quite immersed enough with the movement and shooting with controllers and I've often thought to myself while trying, "could have done that easily with the mouse' and invariably fire the PC up. |
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 12:39:42 GMT
Try playing with the sensitivity a bit
I think I used Chocolate Doom whenever I played on PC. Just basic Doom without anything fancy as I remember
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Post by simple on Jul 19, 2024 12:42:41 GMT
I've just nabbed a Daikatana key after you boomers going on about it... Not sure why I never even bothered trying it. Masters of Doom piqued my interest recently. Tremendous book that |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 19, 2024 12:47:24 GMT
Try playing with the sensitivity a bit I think I used Chocolate Doom whenever I played on PC. Just basic Doom without anything fancy as I remember Yeah I tried the sensitivity. And it does help but I think the mouse and keyboard are hard wired in my brain now and I can't seem to adapt fully to the controllers. I'm sure younger people piss it easily but I'll stick to the mouse. Yes chocolate doom is a good one too |
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Post by RadicalRex on Jul 19, 2024 12:48:18 GMT
I love playing OG Doom on a controller, but that may be mostly because back in the days I used to play it keyboard only. I later tried key+mouse a few times, but in that game it just feels completely wrong to me (for the record, I do know now that it was actually the intended way).
Twin sticks gives me a somewhat closer feel to keyboard, but it's greatly improved thanks to being analogue. Analogue 360 degree movement is something I don't get even with kbm and it's something I really like in this game, makes it so buttery smooth.
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Post by Duffking on Jul 19, 2024 12:52:04 GMT
Choc Doom is pretty nice, it's what DoomRetro is based on actually. I think a lot of ports like Crispy use it as their base because it's a very conservative reproduction of Doom as it was. I prefer Crispy/Nugget over it just for the ability to run it at higher frame rates and slightly higher res (and controller support on Nugget's part). quadfather if you want something that's a bit more of the new hotness, give Eviternity 1/2 a try. 2 even has a website and its own key art. eviternity.dfdoom.com/ |
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 19, 2024 12:54:13 GMT
Also, if we're talking old Doom stuff, in case anyone is unaware, Romero has released 2 new episodes for Doom called Sigil that are worth checking out
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Post by quadfather on Jul 19, 2024 12:59:09 GMT
Choc Doom is pretty nice, it's what DoomRetro is based on actually. I think a lot of ports like Crispy use it as their base because it's a very conservative reproduction of Doom as it was. I prefer Crispy/Nugget over it just for the ability to run it at higher frame rates and slightly higher res (and controller support on Nugget's part). quadfather if you want something that's a bit more of the new hotness, give Eviternity 1/2 a try. 2 even has a website and its own key art. eviternity.dfdoom.com/Nice one, cheers, I'll take a look 👍 |
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Post by quadfather on Jul 19, 2024 13:04:08 GMT
Also, if we're talking old Doom stuff, in case anyone is unaware, Romero has released 2 new episodes for Doom called Sigil that are worth checking out Yes I picked up the physical box of this. It's really nice and has a floppy disk converted into a USB flash drive as the installer. Neat! photos.app.goo.gl/GonntLbfLb4NSYFF7Some nice goodies with it too, including the cd album by buckethead photos.app.goo.gl/ifLNK8M19dunSQs67 |
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Post by mrpon on Jul 19, 2024 13:17:21 GMT
Little tip. Peel off that fucking sticker and utilise it's stickyness to clean the monitor stand!!
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