crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,873
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on May 22, 2024 7:32:57 GMT
PCs moving away from x86.
I've been expecting this for years now and after some early stumbles it now appears to be happening.
There's been lots of hype for this new Windows on ARM push but it's seems like the new Qualcomm chips actually are the shit and I believe this is probably the start of the end for x86, especially on laptops and other things form factor devices. Nobody is going to pick a 5-7 hour lasting device up over a 24+ one with better performance.
Everything will run on a translation layer (think how WINE or PROTON works) which will be great for lots of legacy software but anything current will just get a native port, as is happening for Adobe's creative shit, browsers, video software etc and it'll snowball from there.
I'm more interested in how this will shakeout for desktops. Imagine slotting in a cpu that just needs a nice breeze across it from the case fans. Or maybe the GPU does in fact become the largest pc part and you attach the arm chip and ram to that.
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Post by Phattso on May 22, 2024 7:37:57 GMT
People on Macs are living it already and it is indeed The Way.
MS will find a way to dramatically fuck it up for everyone though. They always do.
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Post by elstoof on May 22, 2024 8:11:16 GMT
Intel will be completely fucked at that point
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Post by Chopsen on May 22, 2024 8:12:42 GMT
MS has tried moving to ARM/RISC before, both with software and their own hardware, and it didn't take. Has something new happened?
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Post by Phattso on May 22, 2024 8:16:13 GMT
The growing laptop/tablet market has reached its thermal limits and people are fed up with loud fans. Apple proved it could work, and work well. Expectations have shifted. The case for desktops is less clear cut, especially with AIO coolers being the new hotness (pun intended) but anyone who has used an Apple Studio will tell you it’s pretty fucking great there too.  |
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Post by elstoof on May 22, 2024 8:21:54 GMT
The new Surface is launching with RISC chips as MS cosies up closer to Qualcomm
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Post by Chopsen on May 22, 2024 8:26:02 GMT
The new Surface is launching with RISC chips as MS cosies up closer to Qualcomm That's my point tho. They have done this before, with their Surface brand too. Is there anything to suggest that this time it's different? |
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Post by Reviewer on May 22, 2024 8:28:50 GMT
If excel and word don't work on them then it won't happen for a long time.
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Post by elstoof on May 22, 2024 8:28:52 GMT
I think they’d have to buy Qualcomm for it to really work, but they definitely need it to work before Apple pulls too far ahead
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Post by drhickman1983 on May 22, 2024 8:30:10 GMT
I had a Surface pro for work for a bit, it often overheated. Hope whatever cooling they do is better than that.
As for desktops, if there's any adverse impact on gaming it won't get far. Don't know if that would be an issue, I'm very untechnical.
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Post by Chopsen on May 22, 2024 8:37:47 GMT
If excel and word don't work on them then it won't happen for a long time. MS have had a native ARM version of Office for a while now. What they really need is a rock solid comparability layer that means any random legacy apps work seamlessly. I haven't seen anything suggesting they've solved that yet. Nobody *likes* windows, they use it because that's what they need for whatever software they use. I'm not going anywhere till I see keepass 2 working. Other people with have other random foibles. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 22, 2024 8:39:48 GMT
Yeah I don't know what the user case there is for desktop builds using ARM.
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zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on May 22, 2024 8:50:15 GMT
There is no adverse inpact on gaming. CISC is a remnant of the past, which was necessary because RAM was expensive. It just took this long for software to catch up to the fact that RAM is no longer expensive. My father already said in the 90ies that CISC was done for and RISC was the way of the future. He was a bit early with that, but he also worked at IBM, so it's understandable why he thought that. Here's a nice article about it: cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/soco/projects/risc/risccisc/ |
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Post by Fake_Blood on May 22, 2024 8:52:28 GMT
Desktops are probably a tiny segment at this point, unless you count those tiny office pc’s, I bet they’ll become even smaller with ARM chips. I forgot, did Nvidia end up buying ARM?
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 22, 2024 9:04:42 GMT
No it was deemed uncompetitive.
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Post by drhickman1983 on May 22, 2024 9:06:53 GMT
Desktops are probably a tiny segment at this point, unless you count those tiny office pc’s, I bet they’ll become even smaller with ARM chips. I forgot, did Nvidia end up buying ARM? Tiny segment for work, but substantial in gaming. |
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Post by dfunked on May 22, 2024 9:09:48 GMT
Kind of feels like Intel has already answered the tiny low power fanless PC requirement with N100 for example. I got a N100 mini pc for a silly amount of money from AliExpress and it's surprisingly competent even as a daily driver machine for the size and cost, and it natively runs everything.
Ableton would be the only real blocker for me switching my laptop. If it wasn't for that I'd probably have switched to nix yonks ago as there aren't really any other native Windows apps I need. Switching my desktop would be a much harder sell
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Post by peekconfusion on May 22, 2024 9:22:15 GMT
It'll be interesting to see the ramifications in the server market as well.
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zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on May 22, 2024 10:42:47 GMT
The server market is pretty diverse. You have lots of tasks that barely produce any load on modern CPUs, and those run just fine on hyperthreaded vCPUs (1 vCPU on hyperthreaded x86 can actually share a physical core with another vCPU). But you also have CPU-intensive stuff, and that runs much more cost-efficiently on Amazon's new ARM-based Graviton chips.
Personally, I have about a 30% lower AWS lambda bill since I switched my functions to ARM-based lambda.
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Post by 😎 on May 22, 2024 11:27:21 GMT
And don’t forget to iron your HDMI cable for increased throughput to your x1 port.
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Post by elstoof on May 22, 2024 11:39:04 GMT
Funnily enough I was wondering just the other day if I’m overpaying on my AWS lambda bill
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zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on May 22, 2024 12:24:05 GMT
Well, I'm not sure if you're serious, but if you are, it obviously depends on what you're doing there. Certainly worth a try if you can switch at all.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,873
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on May 22, 2024 12:30:51 GMT
The new Surface is launching with RISC chips as MS cosies up closer to Qualcomm That's my point tho. They have done this before, with their Surface brand too. Is there anything to suggest that this time it's different? yeah there is a sizable push with the new Qualcomm X and X Elite chips. MS has reworked a whole bunch of stuff with windows as well and had a big event on Monday to reveal it all. The new laptops will be branded Copilot+ laptops and currently AMD and Intel are on the outs as they're fast enough for all the AIs. All the big name manufacturers alhave also committed to new lines with arm only |
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Post by rhaegyr on May 22, 2024 12:35:07 GMT
I wish I understood any of this.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,873
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on May 22, 2024 12:42:57 GMT
I wish I understood any of this. There is a new CPU in town and its currently shitting allover AMD and Intel's lunch and stealing their money. If they really do perform the way it's being suggested even with emulation/translation layer then x86 as they are now are done for in laptops |
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Post by Fake_Blood on May 22, 2024 13:01:50 GMT
Not to hijack this thread but, MS seems to saying a lot of crazy AI shit lately, I bet those Qualcomm chips will have AI in them too?
WhoTF asked for this?
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Post by elstoof on May 22, 2024 13:17:33 GMT
When my wife logs on and the computer opens some pornhub videos based on my viewing history that is NOT ok microsoft
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 22, 2024 13:37:47 GMT
Recall is already getting investigated by the UK data protection (?) watchdog.
Excuse my total ignorance, but how did Intel (and AMD i guess) suddenly get so far behind the curve when it comes to processors?
It doesn't seem like the kind of industry where you could just rock up and compete with no prior experience, and they should have had a lock on all the most experienced engineers, and all the decades of knowledge and patents.
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Post by 😎 on May 22, 2024 13:47:45 GMT
Because their core business is still mostly enterprise, and cloud aside, the vast majority of them are on x86 and will be for many years to come. Pivoting while keeping their core supplied isn’t a risk they’re willing to take yet.
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Post by Fake_Blood on May 22, 2024 14:24:41 GMT
Intel had a good product and no real competition, so they had a stretch of 6 years where they were stuck at 14nm and just kept adding more cores and upping the frequency. So successful product, no real competition, and a company ran by bean counters that don’t want to change anything as long as the line on the chart keeps pointing up.
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