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Post by simple on Mar 28, 2024 0:24:02 GMT
At this rate the only thing that will top The Rock’s performances will be if they debut Stone Cold’s barn cat Pancho
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 28, 2024 16:38:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2024 16:41:23 GMT
I think he mentioned Roman once, too. He was always of the idea that it should’ve been an up and comer whose legacy it could’ve cemented. He didn’t like it being Brock at all.
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rawshark
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Post by rawshark on Mar 28, 2024 17:37:03 GMT
It cemented Brock as The Guy for the foreseeable, though. When Roman got his turn I’m not sure he was any more over afterwards. Wasn’t it the Raw after that Mania that they made JBL explain to the TV audience that the crowd would boo the good guys because it was “opposites day”.
Cena should have put Wyatt over. He was on his way out by then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2024 17:51:37 GMT
Brock was already a made man though. He was booked as a big deal during his “The Next Big Thing” debut, and even moreso when he came back following his UFC career. That was Taker’s issue with it. He didn’t need it.
By the time Roman got the second win, it didn’t mean as much because the streak had already been broken.
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Post by rawshark on Mar 28, 2024 18:01:01 GMT
Brock was already a made man though. He was booked as a big deal during his “The Next Big Thing” debut, and even moreso when he came back following his UFC career. That was Taker’s issue with it. He didn’t need it. By the time Roman got the second win, it didn’t mean as much because the streak had already been broken. To be fair though, Brock’s WWE career did get derailed by the whole Brock v Goldberg debacle and his leaving to pursue an NFL/MMA career for a bit. And then he lost to Cena on his return because Cena. He needed something big for people to sit up and take notice. I forget if the Cena squash was before or after, but it could be argued that was just as pivotal.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 28, 2024 18:49:56 GMT
Cena squash was after. Cena was the one who said it needed to go that way or they wasted him beating Taker.
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Post by zisssou on Mar 28, 2024 21:16:24 GMT
Despite the good wrestling on Dynamite I can’t help but feel a bit bored? This week seemed a little off. There wasn’t a pull to keep me interested.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 29, 2024 16:34:53 GMT
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Post by simple on Mar 29, 2024 16:59:04 GMT
When does Pancho the barn cat debut on Raw, that’s what I wanna know.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 30, 2024 9:30:58 GMT
Asuka never getting a WM win
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Post by zisssou on Mar 31, 2024 10:23:07 GMT
Just baffles me the booking of AEW. So you have a potential student vs teacher feud, that gets a sub 10 minute match on Collision. I think a strong build up of Matt vs Adam would be golden to a PPV. But at the end you’ve got house of black coming out and Kingston and Brisco zzzzzzz. Terrible.
And I’m not saying sign Matt. But he could sign temporarily for this feud.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 13:00:11 GMT
Tony ran out of ideas a while back and can't book for shit now. The 3 recent signings have done nothing to improve the shows numbers(think last Dynamite was the shows 2nd lowest?) And word is even All In its struggling to shift tickets this year.
Feeling more and more like they got helped massively in the early days by the then Vince ran WWE but since HHH took over a lot of fans have given up on AEW.
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Post by richardiox on Mar 31, 2024 13:39:08 GMT
Fuck me this whole willing AEW to fail thing is amazing. A wrestling promotion selling 40k+tickets to Wembley Stadium with no card and with 5 months to the show now equals "struggling to sell tickets".
Those three signings haven't bumped viewers but it still does 800k a week which is huge. And "winning" isn't most viewers it's the best show and best matches. (although WWE are winning for best shows)
There's plenty to dislike about AEW but I swear there's a huge swathe of wrestling fans who will celebrate it TK ever announces its closure.
Meanwhile all I see is national and international TV deals, the best roster in terms of in-ring talent, big ratings and the return of the "5 star match" to US wrestling for the first time since the 90s.
I rag on TK and AEW plenty in this thread because I'm a fan and want it to be the best it can (same with WWE, I endured 2003-2017 after all) but you do have to see the big picture and remember the pre-AEW scene and think about how unthinkable their incredible levels of success was.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 14:52:46 GMT
It's not willing it's just looking at key things. The shows aren't exactly great and guys no selling a bunch of moves is an instant turn off for me.
Ratings have dropped and its now over a year since they got over 1m. Something they used to get most weeks. Last week they did just over 700k with no competition.
60% of the arenas now are empty even when only trying to sell 3k tickets and the company has yet to turn a profit.
Tony needs to bring someone in to run the shows. Trim the fat and stop bringing outside talent in for random matches.
Other note, did it ever come out why TNA sacked D'Amore? Seems to have made the company lose all momentum and go back to obscurity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2024 15:51:59 GMT
Well, the competition was NCAA basketball, which is hot. Especially right now with Caitlin Clark looking like the future of the WNBA. AEW always does poorly against live sports.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 16:16:43 GMT
Tony's the companies biggest competition.
Stuff like that has to Sting. Right on the nose
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Post by simple on Mar 31, 2024 17:20:03 GMT
AEW need someone to work on the booking/story writing side because there’s more than enough talent there. I think the issue a few people like me have run into is that “only” doing good matches feels a bit hollow when we’ve been coached by WWF, WCW, ECW, TNA etc over the years to expect storylines and emotional content to go alongside the athleticism.
Its not that AEW is bad or that I want it to fail, but at the same time its not a super rewarding weekly watch at the moment.
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Post by richardiox on Mar 31, 2024 17:29:59 GMT
It's not willing it's just looking at key things. The shows aren't exactly great and guys no selling a bunch of moves is an instant turn off for me. Ratings have dropped and its now over a year since they got over 1m. Something they used to get most weeks. Last week they did just over 700k with no competition. 60% of the arenas now are empty even when only trying to sell 3k tickets and the company has yet to turn a profit. Tony needs to bring someone in to run the shows. Trim the fat and stop bringing outside talent in for random matches. Other note, did it ever come out why TNA sacked D'Amore? Seems to have made the company lose all momentum and go back to obscurity. Way to prove my point with your response. If they are averaging over 800k live viewers a week just in the USA that's a huge success surely?! If they are touring arenas that's a huge success surely? They've debuted Okada, Ospreay and Banks in the last month. Their ppvs usually do 10k tickets and 100k+ buys. Yes numbers are down, they now have up to 3 live weekly shows watering down the market, two of which are dogshit. The product has also been weak the last year, TK has had the punk injuries and drama, Omega injured, Cole injured, MJF out. WWE is absolutely on fire too. Thing is you've kept up this narrative right from the very inception of AEW and been called out on it by multiple people. Fair enough you don't like their style of wrestling (despite the fact they feature a variety of in-ring styles not all "flippy shit") but comments like "guys no selling a bunch of moves" just proves to me you don't actually watch it or have any interest in it. And are you saying the WWE presents an 80s NWA style or do they also feature matches full of no selling and false finishes? I don't think I've seen you once say anything positive about the promotion that's given us a dozen (?) five star matches in last 4 years and that has reinvigorated American pro wrestling. Also, please elaborate on your point about how they are "struggling to shift tickets" for Wembley when they've sold 40k already? In what way is that struggling to shift tickets? That comment and the tone in which you make it is the perfect distillation of my entire point, always viewing everything from a deficit perspective and always from the perspective of competition with WWE rather than a new wrestling promotion with a more 90s vibe that can move 40k tickets to a UK show. Yes ratings have dropped, the product is worse than it was and if you were a disgruntled aew fan (like me) then I'd get your complaints but they nearly always come across as the kind of wrestling-wars bullshit I see on Twitter via those pseudo-wrestling news feeds.
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Post by simple on Mar 31, 2024 17:36:25 GMT
Like PAC Okada is mouthwatering stuff but what if it was more than ‘just a match’ or if there was a plan for debuting big stars beyond TK has a major announcement
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Mar 31, 2024 17:42:25 GMT
As someone has pretty much dipped recently (my son has lost interest and I can't really be bothered watching on my own), I thought AEW was absolutely terrible when we gave it a try for a bit. Low rent, self indulgent nonsense full of insider jokes and a bunch of charisma vacuums who are good at gymnastics, out of shape hardcore wrestlers, or people who were stars 20 years ago, compounded by a douchebag owner who can't stop taking L's on twitter.
The fans are more or less a cult as well. Happy to take potshots at the 'competition' and make endless comparisons and critique every little thing and then play the victim as soon as valid criticism comes the other way. I think 90% of WWE is forgettable shite, just for balance. They should just rename it Neckbeard Wrestling Federation and be done with it, tbh.
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Post by richardiox on Mar 31, 2024 17:44:43 GMT
Like PAC Okada is mouthwatering stuff but what if it was more than ‘just a match’ or if there was a plan for debuting big stars beyond TK has a major announcement It would be way better! TK is terrible at decent angles and his ADHD booking compounds this. My issue here is that the whole "aew is fuckin shit and failing, hurray" bollocks from some parts of the wrestling community is total BS,tribalistic and shortsighted. Especially when those who share that view most vocally seem to exclusively watch WWE and don't actually watch aew programming at all.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 18:03:03 GMT
Who cares about Dave Meltzer 5 star matches?? The guy who never gave Kurt a 5 star match.
And yes AEW has no selling moves constantly and it got old quickly. Like when Taker matches at WM just became a bunch of no selling finishes.
(Prefect loop but they still no sold Canadian destroyers). Just look at most matches from the guys that have come from Japan as well.
If you don't see less viewers or more importantly less people actually paying to see shows live then nothing else I can say on that matter. They would be better off booking smaller venues for the weekly shows.(which will also cost them less to use)
You keep speaking about tribal stuff on twitter yet show the exact traits I see from AEW fans constantly who take any criticism to a mini essay or the typical you only watch WWE nonsense. AEW has the talent but that doesn't matter as long as Tony is booking the shows. (And booking them via Cagematch and Dave Meltzer). The company was shit hot just 2 years ago and Tony has no idea how to get close to that.
It's not mid 90s/2013-19 WWE but still in a rut.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2024 18:13:01 GMT
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 18:15:12 GMT
I miss that man. Feel like he's never coming back to wrestle now. The clips of him attacking Corey Graves with his coat keep coming up on X at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2024 18:18:36 GMT
*keeps fingers crossed for surprise Mania return*
But yeah, unless he does the Bryan/Paige/Edge thing of finding your own quack doctors that sign off on your return, it seems less and less likely by the day. Although he seems to care about his wellbeing more than those three did, so I assume if ever does come back, it’s because he’s genuinely cleared. I’d love to see him at least get an on camera position like Graves and Byron did after their career ending injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2024 18:23:16 GMT
On that note, of Big E’s injury I mean, I wonder if the bit on NXT last week with Ridge announcing his retirement is a work or a shoot. I know he did get a lot of online backlash after he injured E, and whatever momentum he had with the brutes really took a dive since.
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Mar 31, 2024 18:25:46 GMT
People can't admit that Sports Entertainment is in fact the most important aspect of wrestling. I could watch 100 films that choreograph fight scenes better and look more impressive than two 160 pound dweebs taking turns open hand slapping each other across the face and chest. I'm not interested in seeing some bloke who looks like a local down at my boozer split his head open with a razor blade every week. I don't want to have to have watched Battle of the Orient VIII at the Tokyo Sumo Arena to know why some bloke who has come across from Japan and appears to want to test the strength of his spinal cord every week is important. I also am not arsed about seeing constant potshots at other companies and shitty insider jokes that are all "Haha, we know it's all fake too guys! We're in on the joke!". It's as low brow and pathetic as it gets.
I'd wager the reason their metrics are dipping in every conceivable area is because the few viewers who are of the more casual variety have been chased off. and it wouldn't surprise me if it's hardcore fanbase has a lot to do with that. It's hostile and navel gazing as fuck from what I've seen.
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Post by baihu1983 on Mar 31, 2024 18:29:37 GMT
*keeps fingers crossed for surprise Mania return* But yeah, unless he does the Bryan/Paige/Edge thing of finding your own quack doctors that sign off on your return, it seems less and less likely by the day. Although he seems to care about his wellbeing more than those three did, so I assume if ever does come back, it’s because he’s genuinely cleared. I’d love to see him at least get an on camera position like Graves and Byron did after their career ending injuries. I was really hoping the New Day/Imperium stuff was leading to him coming back and facing Gunther. Would be 100% OK with him ending the reign.
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Post by pizzacrunch on Mar 31, 2024 18:46:40 GMT
People can't admit that Sports Entertainment is in fact the most important aspect of wrestling. I could watch 100 films that choreograph fight scenes better and look more impressive than two 160 pound dweebs taking turns open hand slapping each other across the face and chest. I'm not interested in seeing some bloke who looks like a local down at my boozer split his head open with a razor blade every week. I don't want to have to have watched Battle of the Orient VIII at the Tokyo Sumo Arena to know why some bloke who has come across from Japan and appears to want to test the strength of his spinal cord every week is important. I also am not arsed about seeing constant potshots at other companies and shitty insider jokes that are all "Haha, we know it's all fake too guys! We're in on the joke!". It's as low brow and pathetic as it gets. I'd wager the reason their metrics are dipping in every conceivable area is because the few viewers who are of the more casual variety have been chased off. and it wouldn't surprise me if it's hardcore fanbase has a lot to do with that. It's hostile and navel gazing as fuck from what I've seen. [b That last sentence at the end of all that anger is exactly why I stopped discussing wrestling online.
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