apollo
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Post by apollo on Feb 12, 2024 19:05:09 GMT
I think its the first marvel film I really want to see in a long time
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Onny
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Post by Onny on Feb 12, 2024 22:54:26 GMT
Deadpool looks good but Christ it comes with a lot of baggage. My daughter has watched every MCU film and trying to explain how he fit in (and Wolverine!) was very hard. With regard to earlier conversations about multiverse bobbins (possible spoilers based on future announced titles and their comic counterparts): Isn’t Secret Wars about the multiverse collapsing into a single universe? Surely they will do this to bookend the “multiverse saga” |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 12, 2024 23:09:53 GMT
‘A wizard did it’
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 13, 2024 0:44:36 GMT
The good thing about "Deadpool & Wolverine" being a possible reset is Wade can talk directly to the audience and do an info dump that's not out of character, along with the catch up that'll be explaining the TVA to him and the non-Loki watching audience. If there's not a PowerPoint presentation or similar done for laughs at some point in the film it's a missed opportunity for some stupid jokes.
There is one problem with that, it's an R rated movie so a lot of the MCU's audience can't see it so expect a PG-13 cut released later on just like what happened with Deadpool 2.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Feb 13, 2024 0:48:30 GMT
Maybe it will be a pivot into them making movies for adults. A new universe of gritty dramas ala Logan.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 13, 2024 3:16:09 GMT
It's weird, because it's doing the exact same stuff we've all been complaining about for other recent Marvel movies.
I am guessing that the guys with rods and the guy in the suit are from Loki? But I haven't seen Loki so I have no idea, same as people who haven't seen Wandavision might be a bit confused by Doc Strange 2, and those who haven't seen Ms Marvel and Wandavision might be a bit confused by The Marvels.
Plus it looks like it's going all Multiverse, which tends to mean nothing has any consequences.
But then again it's Deadpool, so probably none of that matters in this case as its always been full of obscure references and crossovers and never cared that much about continuity or people staying dead.
Looks fun at least, but I'm not sure why everyone is so hyped about the trailer.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 13, 2024 7:32:21 GMT
It looked ok. Fairly safe as a trailer. I think you could make a joke about his swearing being bleeped, now he's in the Disney universe. Maybe he gets a few low ball swears in and then grumbles that he didn't take the opportunity to go harder.
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Post by britesparc on Feb 13, 2024 7:34:11 GMT
One of the jobs of the TVA is to (essentially) delete unwanted realities from the multiverse, so I imagine the gag here is the they're deleting the Fox universe. However all of that is probably going to be explained in the film by Matthew McFadden (sp?!), so I don't think it'll be as confusing as Wanda's kids or Monica Rambeau might have been.
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Post by britesparc on Feb 13, 2024 7:35:09 GMT
It looked ok. Fairly safe as a trailer. I think you could make a joke about his swearing being bleeped, now he's in the Disney universe. Maybe he gets a few low ball swears in and then grumbles that he didn't take the opportunity to go harder. I really hope there's a gag about him being pissed off that Chris Pratt got to say fuck in the MCU before he did. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Feb 13, 2024 7:39:57 GMT
I'm still not convinced that it's been mandatory to watch everything at any point For any Marvel film.
Even if you miss context it's fairly trivial to fill in the gaps because it's not like it's that deep or complex.
I liked the Deadpool trailer because it looked fun, and the tone, at least in the trailer, didn't appear to have been fucked up by Disney.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 13, 2024 9:18:14 GMT
That is Dr Doom in the trailer right?
Great villain if done right. Hope he isn't just a side note.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 13, 2024 9:27:04 GMT
I'm still not convinced that it's been mandatory to watch everything at any point For any Marvel film. Mandatory is strong but vast swathes of it would have been a waste of time and energy if you were unaware of the back story. I don't think there is a single plot point in The Marvels that didn't need you to at least read the wiki. Other than someone flatly asking Monica 'you got your powers walking through a witchy energy barrier?' which is exactly as much care and attention Wandavision gave it. |
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Binky
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Post by Binky on Feb 13, 2024 9:41:49 GMT
That is Dr Doom in the trailer right? Great villain if done right. Hope he isn't just a side note. I thought that. |
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Post by britesparc on Feb 13, 2024 9:42:32 GMT
I'm not sure I'd go that far. I was surprised how well The Marvels introduced Kamala and her bracelets and all that. The plot felt very much like a sequel, picking up the Kree/Skrull stuff from the first film. It's only Monica that seemed a bit rushed. I wonder if centring the film more on her - her sense of abandonment - would have solved that. But maybe it would have been less fun.
I do think, though, that quite how big a deal Wanda's kids are in Doctor Strange could feel a bit weird to someone who last saw her childless in Endgame.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 13, 2024 9:46:08 GMT
Presumably you've seen everything though, right? 'My grandma gave it to me', for example, would seem like a dumb throwaway line unless you knew her grandma was some magic dimension hopping super being.
Like I say, ultimately, who gives a fuck but the whole point of these stupid things is that they are interconnected and if you aren't buying into that there are better things to spend your time on.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 13, 2024 10:13:32 GMT
I'm with Britesparc on this and think people put far too much emphasis on everything being interconnected. You get some added context, but most definitely it isn't mandatory or even expected by the films that you have seen everything.
Interestingly, and perhaps a sign of original intent what with it being the first TV series, Wandavision has probably ended up being the most important, but even then I don't think audience members of Dr. Strange 2 and The Marvels miss much by not having seen it. Yes, Kamala and family are introduced in Ms. Marvel, but really all you need to know for The Marvels about her is "girl with superpowers from a bangle".
Having said that, the perception that you need to see everything likely does put people off it all.
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Post by britesparc on Feb 13, 2024 10:14:39 GMT
Yes but - and I think we might actually be coming to the same point from slightly different ends - I don't think you need to know how she got her powers or anything like that. There's this "new" superhero who's a teenager and she idolises Carol and she's got this magic bracelet. I feel like that's all you need and that's established.
But, yes, maybe it all felt fine because I already knew it all. I've not spoken to anyone who watched the film who didn't have at least a passing knowledge of the MCU (I guess because the Venn diagram of "MCU die-hards" and "people who actually watched The Marvels" is just a perfect circle).
Edit: I was replying to Bongo, in case this is getting confusing 😉
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Post by baihu1983 on Feb 13, 2024 10:31:35 GMT
That is Dr Doom in the trailer right? Great villain if done right. Hope he isn't just a side note. I thought that. Most likely the Fox films version? Guessing a quick comedic death. Why would I need to wait for the actual review? |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Feb 13, 2024 10:39:06 GMT
I do get those points about how it's interconnected but it does feel, for better or worse, like the comics I grew up reading.
When there was a big crossover event (or even a minor one), I wasn't able to follow every comic, so there would be often be things referenced that meant little to me. So I guess I'm just used to just rolling with it.
Maybe it might be weird to jump into a film knowing absolutely nothing at all, but as long as you feel engaged by one of the characters in an MCU ensemble film, I don't think you need perfect knowledge of them all.
And to be honest even though I've seen most of the marvel films I'm fucked if I can remember everything anyway, so sometimes even references I should know go over my head.
As an example, I saw Civil War with a friend who had never seen Ant-Man, but it's not like she was lost as all you need to know is he can change size.
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Post by simple on Feb 13, 2024 10:39:42 GMT
The my grandma gave them to me line is probably a better gag if you don’t know how the tv series ended because it really cuts down that Kree supervillain if they had to go through so epic space quest and Kamala found hers in a shoe box.
Despite having seen everything I still think Monica is underdeveloped. She was a pretty forgettable part in Wanda’s story and SABRE basically just appeared from nowhere like “oh yeah, we have a space station now, don’t ask”.
Everything post-Endgame has been very comic booky in a ‘this is just the setting we operate in, if you don’t get it buy now we’re not explaining it again’ way.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 13, 2024 10:42:05 GMT
I'm with Britesparc on this and think people put far too much emphasis on everything being interconnected. Again, Im assuming that you have watched virtually everything so you have no problem following any of this. Like I say, its not like trying to follow a David Lynch movie so whatever, its just that there is at least some level of enjoyment that rests on people knowing exactly what's going on and are invested in these characters otherwise why bother? If you were completely fresh why would you care at all about Captain Marvel in that movie? |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Feb 13, 2024 10:47:54 GMT
If the characters are charismatic and fun, and the situation they find themselves in is an engaging adventure with actual peril there can be enough in situ to make it work.
Charisma and fun and actual peril are sometimes lacking in MCU films these days, I'll admit.
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Post by simple on Feb 13, 2024 10:49:00 GMT
I can definitely relate to feeling like you’re missing out though. When Ashoka was airing even though it would introduce characters reasonably smoothly it was very clear that it expected me to have done my homework about why everyone cared so much about them.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 13, 2024 10:53:03 GMT
We have had this argument before and I think my basic point is that if you don't engage with the wider universe you are getting like, I dunno, 70% value out of these movies which is fine, they are lightweight, pop-culture action movies, but I'd just watch something else I didn't need to do background reading for to get my moneys worth.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 13, 2024 10:54:44 GMT
I can definitely relate to feeling like you’re missing out though. When Ashoka was airing even though it would introduce characters reasonably smoothly it was very clear that it expected me to have done my homework about why everyone cared so much about them. That's a good example. I didn't watch the cartoons so I didn't know who any of those idiots were and I just did not give a fuck about their mission to rescue beardo. |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 13, 2024 10:57:11 GMT
I have watched pretty much everything from the films to Disney + and I had zero idea what was going on in Marvels.
A space station full of aliens, some Skrull king on a random planet, the Kree planet on the verge of destruction. Two magic space bangles. Plus none of the dramatic "you've been away sooo long" stuff landed with me.
It just felt like a mess.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 13, 2024 10:58:25 GMT
I haven't watched anything since EndGame so hopefully there's a nice YouTube catch up or something at some point.
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Post by simple on Feb 13, 2024 11:04:27 GMT
I can definitely relate to feeling like you’re missing out though. When Ashoka was airing even though it would introduce characters reasonably smoothly it was very clear that it expected me to have done my homework about why everyone cared so much about them. That's a good example. I didn't watch the cartoons so I didn't know who any of those idiots were and I just did not give a fuck about their mission to rescue beardo. Yeah, no idea who Ezra was or why they had to jump beyond known space to find him. To be honest, if I wasn’t old enough to remember the Timothy Zahn books I wouldn’t have known why they were all so scared of Thrawn either since he didn’t really feature in half the series and clearly all the important stuff had happened in cartoons I didn’t watch. And I don’t know why Billy Elliot’s dad was king of the Skrull on a new planet when last I heard they were scratching out broken on Earth with the US President declaring a war against them. Were these the same ones and Fury had moved them away off air? Were they new ones and the war continues? Does it matter? |
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 13, 2024 11:20:15 GMT
If you were completely fresh why would you care at all about Captain Marvel in that movie? I think that issue stems more from the fact that The Marvels was a sequel to Captain Marvel. They certainly expect you to have seen (and remember) the first Captain Marvel film. Which is a problem when there was almost a 5 year gap and over 10 Marvel films since the original. I definitely had that problem with Strange 2 as well, something I wouldn't have said about the Captain America films or the Iron Man films. I do agree that they have an issue with people feeling they should either watch it all or not bother with any of it. I fully expect there were a lot of people who decided to not go see The Marvels if they hadn't seen Ms. Marvel. As I say though, I suspect it is more of a perception issue than something that is actually accurate with the output. |
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Post by simple on Feb 13, 2024 11:26:51 GMT
As well as the big gap between Captain Marvel 1 and Marvels, you’ve also got the issue that whenever they use her she’s only just popping in to say hi while away on some other big epic mission off screen so you start wondering if they’re referring to something you’ve seen or just been told about or its another new off screen adventure that you’re just finding out about now.
Like all the Annihilator stuff I was second guessing if I should know that or not.
I did enjoy the film though, but that was mainly down to how charismatic Kamala and family were as well as how quickly the action bounced along. A Carol/Monica relationship drama would’ve been a slog.
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