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Post by deekyfun on Dec 6, 2022 12:47:27 GMT
It's being released on Steam today (in a couple of hours, in fact). Anyone here interested in giving it a try now it has mouse control, a better UI and doesn't look like a Matrix screensaver.
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Post by Chopsen on Dec 6, 2022 14:37:10 GMT
I never really got on with it when I tried it. I'm not too proud to admit that the visuals were hardly making it easy (yes fuck you I'm superficial what of it). I really did try, love the idea of it but it just felt....not fun. Rimworld tho. Now that's a game.
(edit: I even gave one of those mods that gave it proper graphics a go).
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 6, 2022 14:53:23 GMT
Its fair enough. I also bounced off it trying to see past the ascii and controls. I'm really hoping that the changes to the UI will help make the experience a bit easier, as the game and level of detail underneath really does appeal.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 6, 2022 16:07:38 GMT
I've sunk in quite a lot of time into the older releases but didn't play for a few years now. Just picked this up and I'm currently rolling my new world. Based on the demos that Tarn did it looks a lot friendlier but still has very dorfy "features".
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 6, 2022 19:00:48 GMT
I didn't mind the graphics and the controls, but some workflows were very tedious, for example army management. Also there was no good way to see and manage professions, so you kind of had to rely on external tools or write everything down. And then there was the slow but inevitable reduction of the game speed with every new wave of immigrants that arrived at the fortress. This is what usually killed my fortresses, not some ingame events.
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Post by jeepers on Dec 6, 2022 19:40:24 GMT
I think this might be in my favourite games of all time. It sucked me in deep for a good few months. A UI kit and some well-chosen add-ons for QoL improvements and it’s just an astounding game.
Using a retracting bridge to make invaders fall 20 storeys on to spikes and then having archers behind murder windows pick off the stragglers so you can steal their shit? That’s video gaming gold, right there.
I haven’t played it for a good few years, and I’ve likely forgotten how to play, but for those few months, it was remarkable.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 6, 2022 21:04:39 GMT
Right, so. Initial impressions after playing an hour or two: There's a tutorial but the tutorial probably won't help people who actually don't know how the game works. It's sort of like "Here's how you control the game, good luck!" The UI itself is pretty good! You can click on units to see who they are, you can zoom to units with a click, you can click on a workshop to add new tasks etc. Everything works pretty well there. Designating mining and stockpiles and other stuff is a bit clunky still but workable. I already found a bug: you can no longer build a staircase up on flat ground unless you can see the floor above, so you need to place your stairs early. Assigning jobs is marginally easier as there's a job menu.  Didn't get to military yet. I fully expect it to be the same clusterfuck as before but maybe it'll positively surprise me! |
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Post by jellyhead on Dec 6, 2022 21:11:15 GMT
I've been waiting years for this. I bought it on itch and got a Steam key with it as well. Nice.
I'm total garbage at the game but i've read Boatmurdered etc several times and watched a bunch of people play it over the years so it's definitely worth paying for.
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 6, 2022 21:12:13 GMT
I've only had a bit of a chance to work through part of the tutorial, mostly because I spent hours looking at the map generation and legends.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 7, 2022 7:26:55 GMT
I'm total garbage at the game but i've read Boatmurdered etc several times and watched a bunch of people play it over the years so it's definitely worth paying for. We had a succession game on the old forums, back when DF was still 2D. It was quite funny. Maybe we can have a new one now that Dorf le Moderne is out. |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Dec 8, 2022 11:56:45 GMT
One of my favourite games, even the ascii version beats Rimworld for me. Something to do with the scale and variety DF has going on.
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 8, 2022 12:01:51 GMT
Ah, yes, when you hit that microcline cluster and are looking forward to cyan tables and cabinets being strewn everywhere around your beautiful fortress.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 8, 2022 12:54:57 GMT
I'm half tempted by the idea of this with graphics. But the other half of me knows that I'm still never going to get into it.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 8, 2022 14:29:21 GMT
The basic running of a fortress really isn't that daunting. The new UI makes most tasks... Accomplishable.
I think the biggest issue is still that the tutorial is lacking everything about how to actually make a fortress work. It doesn't teach you about bookkeeper, manager, farming, brewing, forbidding your booze plants and booze from cooking, setting up animal pens, the need to breach the caves (although I guess you could pasture your animals outside?), anything really.
Even if it showed you like a couple of slides that go "Your dwarves like to drink booze. Make farm plots on dirt underground so you can make booze at a distiller. There is more fertile soil in the caves." the situation would be much improved.
If anyone is interested I could write a few short explainers on getting the most important systems up and running.
Oh, and I got to set up some military squads. The system seems actually not too bad now (although I think getting them into uniform will still be a challenge).
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 8, 2022 15:09:27 GMT
The tutorial is pretty light, but I've been finding the help system works as the next step - for example it had some explanations not that dissimilar to the tutorial to help me with farms and starting to brew, which were my next steps. It also seems to mark which ones you've already read through so it can be used to learn some more details of the systems.
I've no doubt given the complexity of things at play here that it probably doesn't cover everything, but I'm finding it pretty helpful as a I'm finding more things I want to try doing but aren't sure where to find them or how they work.
That being said, if you've got advice and experience to share, I'm all ears :-)
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Post by jellyhead on Dec 8, 2022 15:23:42 GMT
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 8, 2022 17:20:00 GMT
I have no idea how it is now, but back in the day you didn't have to farm outside or breach the caves. You could just splash some water on any non-smoothed cave floor and there would be some mud on it that you could plant seeds in for cave fungus like plump helmet spawn. If left alone for long enough, some moss would grow there as well that grazing pets could eat (although it required a massive area to supply enough moss for any mentionable amount of pets).
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 8, 2022 20:36:49 GMT
There is a soil quality modifier now, best soil is in the caverns.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 10, 2022 0:41:34 GMT
Well I had my first bit of fun. 50+ dorfs, very stable economy, almost everyone happy, two full squads of military kitted out in iron.
Oh what's this, a were monitor? Pshhh, my military will make short work of this nuisance. And sure enough, after bit of a tussle the beast was vanquished with only minor injuries to a few defenders. Problem solved.
So then a couple of days later a few dorfs turn up dead. That's strange! And then suddenly I've got 4 were monitors running around the fort. I rally the army and get them chopped into pieces.
And then a few days later it happens again. Classic "if you get bit, you'll turn" syndrome.
I went from 50+ to 13, with half of them in hospital, by the time I got every last infected dorf dead or exiled. Fun! There goes my legendary miner, carpenter, stone worker, brewer... Even my grand master diagnostician got eaten.
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 10, 2022 10:42:22 GMT
Your first mistake was not having an isolated inner fortress that is only connected to the outside world with raisable drawbridges. The military and anybody who needs contact with the outside world lives in the outer fortress. You also need an item exchange system using dump zones and hatches that can be opened to drop stuff into the other fortress.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 10, 2022 11:20:10 GMT
Sounds a bit boring, tbh. For me the point of the game isn't to design an unbeatable fortress but to have fun and see what the crazy rng machine throws up.
When I last played a couple of years ago my obsession was building an entirely above ground fortress out of nothing but glass. Certainly not impregnable, just interesting.
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 10, 2022 12:06:12 GMT
Not having an isolated inner fortress is everyone's first mistake, in my (lonely) opinion.
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 10, 2022 12:08:19 GMT
I was trying to get to grip with creating a metal industry, and struggling with how to get fuel going. It seems like you need to burn some wood first to get charcoal, to jump-start your coke-making production first. Is that right? Seems a bit much to have to build a whole workshop just to make one charcoal.
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mrharvest
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Post by mrharvest on Dec 10, 2022 13:10:29 GMT
I usually dig straight for magma and use the magma forges instead - saves a bit of hassle.
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 10, 2022 13:13:33 GMT
You can also bring charcoal on the first wagon or later trade for it.
Also, if you think an isolated fortress is an easy way to win, think again. It is certainly harder to lose, but you will still lose. It also isn't boring, because you still have the outside fortress, and of course you are going to try and keep that orderly as well. It just helps you a bit to protect you from most of the bullshit mechanics that make you lose without anything you can do against it, such as werebeasts, vampirism, infections, etc.
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 10, 2022 13:27:45 GMT
I'm playing on the nice easy tutorial area and still running into trouble. I just had a child dwarf die of dehydration, despite there being lots of wine around, and I couldn't find their body so managed to let it rot in front of her parents until it got so bad I could see the stink clouds. Needless to say, her parents aren't happy and don't want to pick berries anymore.
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Post by Hanimalle on Dec 11, 2022 11:10:21 GMT
Dwarf Fortress has always terrified me, which is probably why I've never tried it. I'll admit I'm tempted by this new version but I already have so many games in my backlog that it probably would be wise not to add something as time consuming as DF would likely become for me to it.
I'll be glad to read everyone's words on it though, I remember Nate Crowley's Basement of Curiosity as being one of the most fascinating read on RPS.
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 12, 2022 9:47:53 GMT
I just had a child dwarf die of dehydration, despite there being lots of wine around I think you need access to a freshwater supply. Children and babies probably don't drink alcohol. You'll need that water for different things anyway, such as wound care, because if I remember correctly, injured people also don't drink alcohol. |
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Post by deekyfun on Dec 12, 2022 10:06:25 GMT
I just had a child dwarf die of dehydration, despite there being lots of wine around I think you need access to a freshwater supply. Children and babies probably don't drink alcohol. You'll need that water for different things anyway, such as wound care, because if I remember correctly, injured people also don't drink alcohol. Thanks for the tips. I did wonder that, but when I looked at the child's profile it said she needed alcohol to get through the day, so I wasn't sure if the children also had it. |
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 12, 2022 12:28:32 GMT
Well, it seems I was wrong anyway and apparently, even babies already drink alcohol. So not sure what happened there. Maybe it was wounded?
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