kal
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Post by kal on Jan 30, 2023 11:31:39 GMT
The pandemic did play a role in that points tally to be very honest. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be considered a fantastic team but it was a very strange season.
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Jan 30, 2023 11:32:06 GMT
Liverpool were unlucky not to win a single regular Premier League title.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jan 30, 2023 11:32:47 GMT
Klopp deserves a statue at Liverpool, really. I don't quite get the Liverpool or Klopp hate. My experience of the city and the people is fine.
But to say it was a flash in the pan is nonsense. For them to have done so well speaks volumes of Klopp and their main failing is not refreshing.
He's definitely earned the right to have a season or two just hanging about top 8 and rebuilding.
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Post by clemfandango on Jan 30, 2023 11:33:00 GMT
Points mean nothing in history if they didn’t win anything with them. nobody will be talking about their points in 20 years time. Apart from Liverpool fans of course…
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Post by clemfandango on Jan 30, 2023 11:37:57 GMT
Nah. That Liverpool side were superb. I think PL points are often a better measure of a side than cups as there's less room for luck to skew things. They got 96, 99 and 93 points in 3/4 seasons. That's phenomenal and more dominant then the Utd and Arsenal teams of the 90s/00s. Don't know about best ever but certainly deserve to be in the conversation with that record. Really is only the fact that Abu Dhabi FC exist that has prevented them having an 'era'. For any club not bank rolled by a state they are the model for how to compete. I don't know if Klopp can build a second brilliant team but he's earnt the right to have a go. Actually, that is a fair point (beter than mine!). Points over the season was ridiculous - and perhaps other eras didn't have quite the onerous opposition as MCFC have been in the Klopp era. United and Arsenal was an epic rivalry. Liverpool have won one league title and even that is heavily tainted. This rewriting of recent history for Liverpool is nonsense. Even Chelsea can lay claim to having a better more dominant spell than them
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 30, 2023 11:46:03 GMT
Constantly edge-lording this thread really isn’t the valuable contribution you think it is.
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Post by cristar on Jan 30, 2023 11:47:23 GMT
Flash in the pan probably a harsh phrase to use maybe, as they were great for those 2 or 3 seasons. But they won a champions league, then a covid Prem league the next season, and not much else. Sure you can point to point totals, or Champions league finals, but being runners up in stuff doesn't equal a 'Best team of all time'*.
In the history books it will maybe look like a flash in a Man City/Oil era.
*Sky Sports hyperbole
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 30, 2023 11:52:45 GMT
Flash in the pan probably a harsh phrase to use maybe, as they were great for those 2 or 3 seasons. But they won a champions league, then a covid Prem league the next season, and not much else. Sure you can point to point totals, or Champions league finals, but being runners up in stuff doesn't equal a 'Best team of all time'*. In the history books it will maybe look like a flash in a Man City/Oil era. *Sky Sports hyperbole “Not much else” shouldn’t really include the FA Cup or even the League Cup. You can probably downplay the Community Shield and the Super Cups things although most clubs would love to win them. Still Klopp won the big three trophies. That’s more than Wenger, Mourinho or even Pep managed. It’s significant.
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Post by clemfandango on Jan 30, 2023 11:54:40 GMT
Constantly edge-lording this thread really isn’t the valuable contribution you think it is. Where am I edge lording? I’m a united fan who doesn’t like Liverpool and most United fans believe the liverpool love in was/is ridiculous. You are spurs fan who doesn’t like arsenal and constantly show it. You also don’t like me, which is fine but maybe give it a rest on the digs, it’s beneath you.
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 30, 2023 11:55:26 GMT
Constantly edge-lording this thread really isn’t the valuable contribution you think it is. Where am I edge lording? I’m a united fan who doesn’t like Liverpool and most United fans believe the liverpool love in was/is ridiculous. You are spurs fan who doesn’t like arsenal and constantly show it. You also don’t like me, which is fine but maybe give it rest on the digs, it’s beneath you. It really isn’t. And you started it.
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Post by clemfandango on Jan 30, 2023 11:56:07 GMT
Playground stuff now
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Jan 30, 2023 12:11:10 GMT
Big news for FPL
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Post by simple on Jan 30, 2023 12:30:42 GMT
I think its fine to say City Liverpool hasn’t been the intense rivalry Arsenal United was but also that City’s dominance has meant that even routinely achieving “league winning” 90+ points totals a fantastic Liverpool squad was denied the silverware that might elevate it to capital-G Greatness in the history books.
Would anyone even call it a rivalry, really? There’s never felt like there’s been any personal stakes in it from the outside. City only being about ten years old as a club probably makes it difficult to get too hot I suppose.
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Post by Dougs on Jan 30, 2023 12:34:02 GMT
I don't see how LFC's title was tainted. Unusual circumstances for sure but that's it. Odd ret-con that Klopp hasn't been successful. Just strikes me as bitter Utd fan unable to accept that they were a great team.
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Post by TheSaint on Jan 30, 2023 12:38:18 GMT
Especially when you consider that they had a twenty-five-point lead at the start of the lockdown.
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Post by TheSaint on Jan 30, 2023 12:39:18 GMT
I do however find it funny how quickly their fans have disappeared from here. They disappeared almost as quickly as the green and yellow scarfs when Man United win a few games.
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Post by muddyfunster on Jan 30, 2023 12:40:22 GMT
Re: league points.
I just think it's the best measure we have of relative strength. It's almost a better measure than finishing position in terms of progress/regression.
I get that the objective is to win stuff but as a measure points somewhat control for strength of opposition. A Cup win can be lucky. A higher finishing position in a weak year is also somewhat lucky.
Also the COVID season was weird but it didn't diminish the achievement. It was tough for everyone and yet they romped it. If you want to take some crumbs of comfort as a rival fan it should be that they were denied the chance to celebrate it properly as there wasn't a conventional winning 'moment' and gatherings were banned. Arguably the shittiest ever season to be Champions for that reason but not because it was easy.
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 30, 2023 12:42:34 GMT
I think its fine to say City Liverpool hasn’t been the intense rivalry Arsenal United was but also that City’s dominance has meant that even routinely achieving “league winning” 90+ points totals a fantastic Liverpool squad was denied the silverware that might elevate it to capital-G Greatness in the history books. Would anyone even call it a rivalry, really? There’s never felt like there’s been any personal stakes in it from the outside. City only being about ten years old as a club probably makes it difficult to get too hot I suppose. It’s anachronistic to compare City/Liverpool with United/Arsenal. Different era of football where it was much easier to dominate due to the disproportionate money the top four got. Also there were no oil clubs or big American investment groups at that point. That’s not to downplay what Arsenal achieved in that context. Huge achievement to win three titles against the absolute juggernaut that United were back then. But the fact that these days we talk about a ‘big six’ (soon to be seven) shows how different it is today.
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Post by simple on Jan 30, 2023 12:43:32 GMT
Obviously every fan would rather win the league with 81 points like Leicester did but there’s no denying a team who can finish multiple seasons in a row with 90+
I was just following the AFC/MUFC line that others had, but yeah its a different game now.
Also not downplaying what Leicester did at all, winning trophies is what we’re here for
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Post by cristar on Jan 30, 2023 12:46:53 GMT
It's more joy that they didn't go on to dominate for a decade, rather than bitter that they won stuff for a few seasons. I like Klopp, and would be a loss to the league if he goes.
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mcmonkeyplc
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General Martok Qapla!
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jan 30, 2023 12:48:01 GMT
I do however find it funny how quickly their fans have disappeared from here. They disappeared almost as quickly as the green and yellow scarfs when Man United win a few games. I think you'll find that's bean replaced with love United hate glazers chant in Every. Single. Game. You guys keep thinking we only protest win we're shit though. It doesn't matter either way.
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jan 30, 2023 12:50:25 GMT
You know, despite all their trophies, I’ve never actually seen Man U play well. You didn't watch us in 2007/2008 then.
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Post by cristar on Jan 30, 2023 12:55:02 GMT
You know, despite all their trophies, I’ve never actually seen Man U play well. You didn't watch us in 2007/2008 then. I can believe that you replied to that lol.
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Post by captbirdseye on Jan 30, 2023 12:56:35 GMT
On Liverpool/Utd, Nunez gets way more shit than Anfony wiggle your legs around.
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Post by Dougs on Jan 30, 2023 13:00:17 GMT
Anyway, that Cancelo move is well weird. He's clearly pissed Pep off badly.
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Jan 30, 2023 13:02:16 GMT
Can we just agree that Liverpool's title* was absolutely tainted, and absolutely can be diminished. Thank you 👍
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Post by simple on Jan 30, 2023 13:04:19 GMT
Anyway, that Cancelo move is well weird. He's clearly pissed Pep off badly. Making room for Mendy?
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Post by RumMonkey on Jan 30, 2023 13:04:31 GMT
They disappeared almost as quickly as the green and yellow scarfs when Man United win a few games. I think you'll find that's bean replaced with love United hate glazers chant in Every. Single. Game. You guys keep thinking we only protest win we're shit though. It doesn't matter either way. It's because you fall for it Every. Single. Time.
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Post by RumMonkey on Jan 30, 2023 13:04:53 GMT
Ergh, and fell for Kals post as well.
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Post by RumMonkey on Jan 30, 2023 13:08:39 GMT
On Liverpool/Utd, Nunez gets way more shit than Anfony wiggle your legs around. Maybe on social media but pundits defend Nunez much more than Antony.
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