cristar
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Post by cristar on Sept 30, 2024 11:08:43 GMT
ETH last 28 games have been worse than Gary Neville's 28 games in charge of Valencia.
ETH last 15 league games have been worse than Everton.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 30, 2024 11:11:38 GMT
So Arsenal fans are the new Liverpool fans then. It's always been there x
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Sept 30, 2024 11:25:17 GMT
Are we all conveniently forgetting that ETH's caretaker replacement is literally sitting on the bench next to him?
Ruud.
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Post by anthonyuk on Sept 30, 2024 11:38:59 GMT
As a Manc and a fan of football, the Utd situation is what pushed me into watching my local village team rather than Utd in the lofty heights of the 8th tier of the league.
I grew tied of the "this isn't how united play" or "he isn't a united player".
Fergie isn't there anymore and the team consists of players who weren't even born during the golden era. It's a completely different team, manager and management. But they're still living off the success of decades gone by. Yes this isn't how the team of old played, but this is Utd now and exactly how they play.
The fans and players feel they have a devine right to just be as good as the teams of old, but they just aren't. Air dropping in stars past their best to plug holes and downing tools when it gets hard is who they are now.
ETH is suffering the exact same fate as every other manager since Ferguson, he's not the answer for sure, but the players have downed tools as soon as things get difficult with every single manager since Ferguson.
Eriksons comments mid week are echos of other comments and issues pointed out by past managers too. They're playing in the Premiership for a top team on 300k a week, but with zero incentive or fire in their belly.
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Post by clemfandango on Sept 30, 2024 11:58:46 GMT
So Arsenal fans are the new Liverpool fans then. No fans will ever get close to Liverpool fans in the awfulness stakes
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 30, 2024 12:53:09 GMT
Are we all conveniently forgetting that ETH's caretaker replacement is literally sitting on the bench next to him? Ruud. If Ruud takes over as caretaker he could easily end up the permanent replacement off the back of a timely new manager bounce and understandable goodwill from fans. There's surely a significant risk that he becomes another Solskjaer. A manager who was not without merit, but was also fairly obviously not elite and unlikely to be the man for such a difficult job. Looking at his management CV, I'd be as wary of Ruud as I would be of Southgate, perhaps more so. Southgate's players and coaches actually liked him. If Utd want a 'project' manager, which seems to be the case, Potter would make a lot of sense.
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Sept 30, 2024 13:14:58 GMT
Are we all conveniently forgetting that ETH's caretaker replacement is literally sitting on the bench next to him? Ruud. If Ruud takes over as caretaker without a permanent replacement lined up, he could easily end up the permanent replacement by default off the back of a timely new manager bounce and goodwill from fans. There's surely a significant risk that he becomes another Solskjaer. A manager who was not without merit, but was also fairly obviously not elite and unlikely to be the man for such a difficult job. Looking at his management CV, I'd be as wary of Ruud as I would be of Southgate, perhaps more so. Southgate's players and coaches actually liked him. If Utd want a 'project' manager, which seems to be the case, Potter would make a lot of sense. Well, yeah it's a massive gamble.
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 30, 2024 13:18:24 GMT
Get ChatGPT to manage United, couldn't do worse than ETH at the moment.
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Sept 30, 2024 13:28:01 GMT
I'm not sure Man Utd players can read well enough to follow written instructions...
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Sept 30, 2024 13:28:22 GMT
Get ChatGPT to manage United, couldn't do worse than ETH at the moment. We have the correct sponsorship for this to work...not saying it'll be better though
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Post by simple on Sept 30, 2024 13:33:54 GMT
I appreciate that the sound of Arsenal fans complaining is annoying but every fan base would be reacting similarly if their club had been on the wrong end of consequential marginal decisions on what feels like a regular basis for years. Stats wise (not my work) for the VAR era (since 2019) Arsenal are an outlier. So either our players are uniquely idiotic or get the benefit of doubt less often, or perhaps it's both. In our matches we have had double the number of players sent off than our opponents (18 vs 9) and ours are far more game changing. Our sending offs come earlier (54mins on average) and when we are either ahead (8) or drawing (6). Whereas our opponents tend to pick up late reds (76mins - and that's brought down a lot by Ayling on 27min) and in each case they were already losing (all 9). Arsenal fans have a perception that they are on the receiving end of unusually high amount of game changing sending offs, because of the games they mostly watch, they actually are. Every other big six side over the same period has seen more reds shown to their opposition than they have received themselves (Chelsea +4, Pool & Spurs +2, City and Utd +1). Arsenal are -9. I don't think there is any conspiracy, but I do think there is Freakanomics style evidence which suggests unconscious bias. There are so many marginal, highly subjective decisions in football it seems probable and I'm sure they exist for & against other clubs too in other regards. Sounds like a real desgracia
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 30, 2024 13:40:48 GMT
For a laugh I asked ChatGPT this : Imagine you are now the Manchester United manager, what team would play and what would be your starting formation?I'll spoiler the entire text of the answer as it's quite long and I don't want to clog up the thread. As the Manchester United manager, I'd aim to create a balanced team that plays dynamic, attacking football while maintaining defensive solidity. I’d focus on a high-pressing game with an emphasis on quick transitions and creative play in the final third. Given the squad's strengths, I'd likely go with a 4-2-3-1 formation, which offers defensive security with two holding midfielders, while allowing freedom for the front four to attack. Starting XI (4-2-3-1 Formation): Goalkeeper:
André Onana Onana is excellent with the ball at his feet, which is crucial for building out from the back. His shot-stopping abilities are solid, and his sweeping skills help the high defensive line.
Right Back:
Aaron Wan-Bissaka I’d opt for Wan-Bissaka in games where defensive stability is more important. He excels in 1v1 defending, and I’d encourage him to improve his attacking contribution. In matches where more offensive threat is needed, Diogo Dalot could be an alternative.
Center Backs:
Raphaël Varane Varane’s experience, leadership, and pace make him the ideal leader of the defense. His ability to anticipate and read the game is key to stopping counter-attacks.
Lisandro Martínez A ball-playing defender who’s aggressive and tenacious in challenges. His ability to step into midfield with the ball helps with overloads and maintaining possession.
Left Back:
Luke Shaw Shaw offers balance between attack and defense. He’s strong going forward with crosses and overlapping runs, while also being solid defensively.
Holding Midfielders (Double Pivot):
Casemiro Casemiro’s experience, defensive awareness, and leadership are invaluable. He shields the backline and wins crucial midfield battles while distributing the ball effectively.
Sofyan Amrabat His energy, tenacity, and ability to progress the ball make him a perfect partner for Casemiro. He can also drop deep to form a back three when the fullbacks push forward.
Attacking Midfield Three:
Right Wing: Bruno Fernandes I’d push Bruno Fernandes to the right flank but give him the freedom to drift inside. This allows for more central creativity while leaving space for the overlapping right-back. He’s also a pressing machine and key playmaker.
Central Attacking Midfielder: Mason Mount Mount can play in the No. 10 role, bringing high energy, creativity, and relentless pressing. He can link play between the midfield and attack, while also taking up advanced positions to score.
Left Wing: Marcus Rashford Rashford is best utilized cutting inside from the left wing. His pace, directness, and goal-scoring ability are vital to our attacking threat, especially on the counter.
Striker: Rasmus Højlund
Højlund provides physical presence and is excellent at pressing from the front. His movement off the ball creates space for the attacking midfielders to exploit, and he’s an aerial threat in the box. Key Tactics:
High Press: With Bruno, Mount, and Rashford leading the press, the team can force errors high up the pitch. Casemiro and Amrabat provide the structure behind to win second balls.
Fluid Attack: The front four (Bruno, Mount, Rashford, Højlund) have the freedom to rotate, which can unsettle opposition defenses. Rashford cutting inside, Shaw overlapping, and Bruno drifting into central spaces creates overloads.
Quick Transitions: When the ball is won, we aim for rapid transitions through the middle, often utilizing Rashford’s pace and Højlund’s hold-up play.
This setup balances United's defensive needs while maximizing their attacking potential.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 30, 2024 13:47:29 GMT
Maybe we shouldn't use Chatgpt then
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Post by clemfandango on Sept 30, 2024 14:03:20 GMT
For a laugh I asked ChatGPT this : Imagine you are now the Manchester United manager, what team would play and what would be your starting formation?I'll spoiler the entire text of the answer as it's quite long and I don't want to clog up the thread. As the Manchester United manager, I'd aim to create a balanced team that plays dynamic, attacking football while maintaining defensive solidity. I’d focus on a high-pressing game with an emphasis on quick transitions and creative play in the final third. Given the squad's strengths, I'd likely go with a 4-2-3-1 formation, which offers defensive security with two holding midfielders, while allowing freedom for the front four to attack. Starting XI (4-2-3-1 Formation): Goalkeeper:
André Onana Onana is excellent with the ball at his feet, which is crucial for building out from the back. His shot-stopping abilities are solid, and his sweeping skills help the high defensive line.
Right Back:
Aaron Wan-Bissaka I’d opt for Wan-Bissaka in games where defensive stability is more important. He excels in 1v1 defending, and I’d encourage him to improve his attacking contribution. In matches where more offensive threat is needed, Diogo Dalot could be an alternative.
Center Backs:
Raphaël Varane Varane’s experience, leadership, and pace make him the ideal leader of the defense. His ability to anticipate and read the game is key to stopping counter-attacks.
Lisandro Martínez A ball-playing defender who’s aggressive and tenacious in challenges. His ability to step into midfield with the ball helps with overloads and maintaining possession.
Left Back:
Luke Shaw Shaw offers balance between attack and defense. He’s strong going forward with crosses and overlapping runs, while also being solid defensively.
Holding Midfielders (Double Pivot):
Casemiro Casemiro’s experience, defensive awareness, and leadership are invaluable. He shields the backline and wins crucial midfield battles while distributing the ball effectively.
Sofyan Amrabat His energy, tenacity, and ability to progress the ball make him a perfect partner for Casemiro. He can also drop deep to form a back three when the fullbacks push forward.
Attacking Midfield Three:
Right Wing: Bruno Fernandes I’d push Bruno Fernandes to the right flank but give him the freedom to drift inside. This allows for more central creativity while leaving space for the overlapping right-back. He’s also a pressing machine and key playmaker.
Central Attacking Midfielder: Mason Mount Mount can play in the No. 10 role, bringing high energy, creativity, and relentless pressing. He can link play between the midfield and attack, while also taking up advanced positions to score.
Left Wing: Marcus Rashford Rashford is best utilized cutting inside from the left wing. His pace, directness, and goal-scoring ability are vital to our attacking threat, especially on the counter.
Striker: Rasmus Højlund
Højlund provides physical presence and is excellent at pressing from the front. His movement off the ball creates space for the attacking midfielders to exploit, and he’s an aerial threat in the box. Key Tactics:
High Press: With Bruno, Mount, and Rashford leading the press, the team can force errors high up the pitch. Casemiro and Amrabat provide the structure behind to win second balls.
Fluid Attack: The front four (Bruno, Mount, Rashford, Højlund) have the freedom to rotate, which can unsettle opposition defenses. Rashford cutting inside, Shaw overlapping, and Bruno drifting into central spaces creates overloads.
Quick Transitions: When the ball is won, we aim for rapid transitions through the middle, often utilizing Rashford’s pace and Højlund’s hold-up play.
This setup balances United's defensive needs while maximizing their attacking potential.
Ten Hag never used that line up last season, just sayin....
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rftp
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Post by rftp on Sept 30, 2024 14:21:42 GMT
Last season in a nutshell.
I mean, apart from the not remotely working bit.
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Post by monkman5000 on Sept 30, 2024 15:24:20 GMT
Having finally watched MOTD and read the last couple of pages, is this the same Arsenal whose first goal came directly after an obvious foul on Vardy, and who should have been down to ten men at 2-2?
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Post by Dougs on Sept 30, 2024 15:36:55 GMT
The same. Calafiori was lucky for sure, and a foul on Vardy would have been soft imo, I couldn't have grumbled especially if it had been given. What the highlights didn't show are Skipp not getting a second yellow much earlier in the game. Not a conspiracy theorist so think that's more due to time restraints than any favouritism or agenda.
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jp
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Post by jp on Sept 30, 2024 16:00:10 GMT
Agree Calafiori was lucky but his first yellow was very soft and as has been mentioned, Skipp was equally lucky and I’m happy the ref wanted to keep 11 v 11. No chance that’s a foul on Vardy worthy of VAR disallowing a goal.
On the “delayed restart” discussion - it’s not that those other examples of players lightly kicking a ball away should be getting cards, it’s that it’s a stupid rule that’s being implemented too aggressively at the start of this season. I also find the inconsistency frustrating but the more it’s raised in the media, the more likely it is that refs will implement it across the board to avoid seeming biased - which is the wrong direction.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 30, 2024 16:17:31 GMT
Having finally watched MOTD and read the last couple of pages, is this the same Arsenal whose first goal came directly after an obvious foul on Vardy, and who should have been down to ten men at 2-2? The MOTD highlights omitted most of the moments where Leicester received their share of favourable decisions. Didn't show the early Saka penalty shout where he was just barged in the back with similar force to what Saliba would later use to manhandle Vardy, nor Skipp's dangerous studs up foul on Martinelli which inexplicably received no card at all, nor one of the worst 'advantages' I've seen after Skipp again (by then finally on a caution) made another silly foul on the edge of their box. If MOTD wanted to make the ref the story of the game it should've been how inconsistent and arbitrary he was throughout with yellow cards. First third the threshold was really high and he was letting quite a lot of contact go without even blowing up, then in the middle third the card bar suddenly flipped to absurdly low and players got booked for far more minor contact than those he'd ignored entirely. Then in the final 30mins the threshold for a yellow was seemingly quite high again and he kept his cards in his pocket once more. It was a very weird and disconcerting performance from the ref in general but fortunately it didn't significantly influence the result as it just about evened out.
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Post by monkman5000 on Sept 30, 2024 16:27:29 GMT
The point is though that we could all write long posts about the decisions that have gone against our teams, but they never tell the whole story. Your thing was about red cards, literally on the same weekend an Arsenal player should according to almost everyone have been sent off but wasn't.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 30, 2024 16:28:41 GMT
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Post by monkman5000 on Sept 30, 2024 16:32:21 GMT
We could all do this though. Forest lost to a very soft penalty that the referee initially didn't give but was sent to the screen for, then in a very similar incident at the other end was not sent to the screen - where's the consistency? But we don't because it would get very tedious.
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askew
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Post by askew on Sept 30, 2024 16:34:27 GMT
I saw a stat which showed Michael Oliver hasn't sent off a single Man City player in his career, which can't be right surely? And that Kovacic incident from last season doesn't help matters. City are very clean and innocent and play fair and if you say otherwise I’m going to get fucking Pannick on your backside.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 30, 2024 16:48:38 GMT
The point is though that we could all write long posts about the decisions that have gone against our teams, but they never tell the whole story. Your thing was about red cards, literally on the same weekend an Arsenal player should according to almost everyone have been sent off but wasn't. Fine but avoiding the back and forth swapping anecdotes that don't really prove anything is the entire point of using long term stats which do. They don't prove why something is happening, only that it is happening.
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 30, 2024 16:52:04 GMT
From watching iffy 3:00PM streams of various games, not just Arsenal ones, it's pretty clear that you do have to consider that MotD is an unreliable narrator at times, so many things that should get mentioned aren't even shown.
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Post by muddyfunster on Sept 30, 2024 16:55:26 GMT
We could all do this though. Forest lost to a very soft penalty that the referee initially didn't give but was sent to the screen for, then in a very similar incident at the other end was not sent to the screen for - where's the consistency? But we don't because it would get very tedious. Genuinely if you have similar stats for Forest I would find it interesting. I only compared us to our direct opponents in Arsenal games, and then just reds for/against for the rest of the big six in their games. It doesn't in any way discount Forest also having had more than their 'it all evens out' apportioned fair share of bad luck.
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Post by zisssou on Sept 30, 2024 17:55:53 GMT
So this then isn’t obvious baiting? Give it a rest they said. Stop talking about it they said
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Post by Zomoniac on Sept 30, 2024 18:28:44 GMT
Bunch of middle aged men who’ve been socialising on the internet for many decades still can’t resist feeding the trolls. Old habits die hard.
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 30, 2024 19:20:27 GMT
Rather poor from Southampton, completely switched off while Bournemouth took the free kick with their own player still on the floor.
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Post by Zomoniac on Sept 30, 2024 19:22:19 GMT
I get that the Sky commentators have a duty to hype up the Premier League, but describing Bournemouth as “playing in the famous red and black” is pushing it a bit.
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