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Post by Fake_Blood on May 9, 2024 11:10:17 GMT
So is it a corporate culture thing that Sony has and MS doesn’t? Only if you ignore all the studio closures and job losses at Sony's studios. I meant more like MS doesn’t fundamentally know how to manage teams that are largely more artistic in nature, compared to Sony who also have a film and music branch? |
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 11:28:23 GMT
I don't think it has anything to do with being artistic in nature, I think it's more that Sony has people in management who have been in the gaming business for a while in some shape or capacity and are aware of how the sausage is made. Compared to management at Xbox who most likely have absolutely no interest in gaming, I think they did at the beginning with the OG Xbox and into the 360 but it becomes clear with the start of the Matrick era there weren't many of them left. I mean the whole TV thing speaks volumes about what kind of people were running the business.
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on May 9, 2024 11:32:28 GMT
I liked running tv through the xbox. Just saying.
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Duffking
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Post by Duffking on May 9, 2024 11:34:14 GMT
I'm not really convinced Xbox have/had much of a plan in general, half the time it seems MS just operates by having departments spending shedloads of money to justify their existence, so Phil put all their into acquiring bigger and bigger companies without any idea of what to actually do with them. Their push toward publishing is laughable as their track record over the last decade is absolute shite. Absolutely zero idea on how to get the studios they own to ship games. I completely agree with that. They appear absolutely averse to starting a studio from scratch and nurturing them or even managing them properly. Hey, they aren't totally averse to it. They tried it with the Initiative and Perfect Dark. And then screwed it entirely by seemingly not realising that even if you have experienced staff, the thing that enables them to deliver ambitious projects is the knowledge built up within a team over time and the tools they're using, so maybe seemingly spinning out a mission based stealth FPS game into a hugely ambitious open world spy-em-up game with an engine that you're not familiar with and which has to date not really been used for a true open world game, is maybe not the best idea. That's the baffling thing here, they set up a whole studio to make a Perfect Dark game and the first decision they made was to then go do something completely different. Just fucking make a modern perfect dark! You already have a blueprint for what it should be like and what it shouldn't be like ffs. |
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on May 9, 2024 11:34:45 GMT
Also, the kinect voice controls were brilliant. They should have put a microphone in the new consoles and kept that part of it.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 11:35:49 GMT
That seems to be what we're talking and agreeing about. First and foremost it's a management thing. They're terrible at it.
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Post by rhaegyr on May 9, 2024 11:37:51 GMT
The article on Eurogamer backs this up.
Lionhead wanted to make Fable 4 but MS said they'd hit their limit on sales. Cue the Fable Legends disaster and subsequent studio closure.
10 years later you've got a developer who makes incredible racing games now making Fable 4.
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Post by Whizzo on May 9, 2024 11:38:04 GMT
I liked running tv through the xbox. Just saying. The beginning of the end.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 11:47:58 GMT
Looking back at that now with hindsight it's amazing that people working in MS management even thought that this was going to be what people who play games, GAMES, wanted.
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Post by Whizzo on May 9, 2024 11:57:08 GMT
Looking back at it now, that reveal is largely why I switched back to PlayStation. If Xbox One had BC with 360 at launch (it didn't) that could have persuaded me to stick with Xbox but that expensive price tag, enforced Kinect (I had one on 360 and didn't want it again) and lower specs made it easy to say cheerio.
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Duffking
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Post by Duffking on May 9, 2024 12:00:00 GMT
Looking back at that now with hindsight it's amazing that people working in MS management even thought that this was going to be what people who play games, GAMES, wanted. It also came off the back of several disappointing E3 years in a row for MS, I remember buying a PS3 at last a few years before this after E3 revealed there to be not a lot of interest coming. And then the shows kept being duds and got capped off with this. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 12:00:51 GMT
I mean TV?! What the fuck were they smoking???
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Post by baihu1983 on May 9, 2024 12:10:26 GMT
The article on Eurogamer backs this up. Lionhead wanted to make Fable 4 but MS said they'd hit their limit on sales. Cue the Fable Legends disaster and subsequent studio closure. 10 years later you've got a developer who makes incredible racing games now making Fable 4. Pretty sure they could have saved Legends and the studio. |
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Post by baihu1983 on May 9, 2024 12:12:09 GMT
I liked running tv through the xbox. Just saying. The beginning of the end.
I always liked how he would always have his hands in his left pocket when doing the commands. Definitely wasn't pushing anything to make it switch.. |
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Post by Fake_Blood on May 9, 2024 12:26:47 GMT
Looking back at that now with hindsight it's amazing that people working in MS management even thought that this was going to be what people who play games, GAMES, wanted. They had data! At the end of the 360 era the data showed that its main use was for Netflix. |
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on May 9, 2024 12:27:02 GMT
The article on Eurogamer backs this up. Lionhead wanted to make Fable 4 but MS said they'd hit their limit on sales. Cue the Fable Legends disaster and subsequent studio closure. 10 years later you've got a developer who makes incredible racing games now making Fable 4. And a video featuring Sarah Bond and Phil Spencer about how they learnt their lesson from cutting Lionhead Studios. Clearly forgot |
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Post by baihu1983 on May 9, 2024 12:32:43 GMT
Not to make excuses for them but I think this is definitely a someone above them situation. But they should have known the Activision deal would lead to more eyes on them.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on May 9, 2024 18:30:10 GMT
Someone nuked Phil Spencer’s camp in Fallout 76, petty but funny
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 18:34:51 GMT
www.eurogamer.net/what-is-the-point-of-xboxThis is a really good clinical article but as usual the comments are something else. It's amazing how many people get offended on behalf of a massive corporation these days.
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Post by paulyboy81 on May 9, 2024 18:43:02 GMT
Was going to post that article also, one of the better things Eurogamer have written recently. Fairly succinctly sums up my own thoughts on the subject.
What's really depressing is that elements from that article can be applied not just to Microsoft, but large swathes of the industry as well. Just look at what the plonkers over at Warner Bros seems intent on doing to themselves as an example. Dare I say it even the likes of Sony aren't immune, albeit to a far lesser degree.
Quite depressing really.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on May 9, 2024 18:56:39 GMT
Not to make excuses for them but I think this is definitely a someone above them situation. But they should have known the Activision deal would lead to more eyes on them. It’s their division within MS, it was their deal, these are their studios. It’s their fault. |
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on May 9, 2024 20:35:08 GMT
"I got laid off by Microsoft and all I got was this lousy t shirt"
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 9, 2024 20:41:43 GMT
I do wonder if they'll ever recover from this in a PR way from this. This one seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back as it were about the gaming industry in it's current growth obsessed form.
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Post by mothercruncher on May 9, 2024 20:46:04 GMT
Definitely takes the sting out of quickly needing a new job to fend of repossession and becoming homeless by wearing the logo of the one that just fired you though 👍
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Post by Vandelay on May 9, 2024 20:54:20 GMT
www.eurogamer.net/what-is-the-point-of-xboxThis is a really good clinical article but as usual the comments are something else. It's amazing how many people get offended on behalf of a massive corporation these days. Yeah, that is a great article and can't really disagree with it. Microsoft have been like this for a long, long time and their failings are deeply seeded. And not just with their consoles and game publishing. As a PC gamer first, I remember the plenty of attempts in the past where Microsoft have tempted to wade into gaming on a desktop and have completely failed with any clear strategy (if it weren't for Steam, Microsoft might well have killed off PC gaming altogether with their bungled attempts). They will apologise for their mistakes and promise to reflect on how to improve, but the same things will happen all over again. The only thing I would say in addition to what the article says is that I think you could also question what PlayStation is for right now. They are obviously not suffering the same financial and PR woes as Xbox, but they are equally losing track of what service they are actually meant to be providing to their customers (i.e. fun games and great interactive stories). There have been great games this generation, but only a small number of them have been as a result of the work done by the big console manufacturers. For all their faults and I get they may not be for everyone, but the only company that seems to get it and has a clear identity at the moment is Nintendo. Let's see if they can continue that trend with the Switch 2, whenever it arrives. |
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on May 9, 2024 21:00:40 GMT
I do wonder if they'll ever recover from this in a PR way from this. This one seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back as it were about the gaming industry in it's current growth obsessed form. Think so long as the next exclusive game comes out and is good, people won't care too much long term. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on May 9, 2024 21:24:33 GMT
The more concise version of that article is ‘look what they did to Halo’. All the directionless flailing about concentrated in one franchise.
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Post by baihu1983 on May 10, 2024 3:28:58 GMT
:/
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Post by Fake_Blood on May 10, 2024 4:15:55 GMT
Ooh, she’s had media training.
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 10, 2024 4:54:59 GMT
www.eurogamer.net/what-is-the-point-of-xboxThis is a really good clinical article but as usual the comments are something else. It's amazing how many people get offended on behalf of a massive corporation these days. Yeah, that is a great article and can't really disagree with it. Microsoft have been like this for a long, long time and their failings are deeply seeded. And not just with their consoles and game publishing. As a PC gamer first, I remember the plenty of attempts in the past where Microsoft have tempted to wade into gaming on a desktop and have completely failed with any clear strategy (if it weren't for Steam, Microsoft might well have killed off PC gaming altogether with their bungled attempts). They will apologise for their mistakes and promise to reflect on how to improve, but the same things will happen all over again. The only thing I would say in addition to what the article says is that I think you could also question what PlayStation is for right now. They are obviously not suffering the same financial and PR woes as Xbox, but they are equally losing track of what service they are actually meant to be providing to their customers (i.e. fun games and great interactive stories). There have been great games this generation, but only a small number of them have been as a result of the work done by the big console manufacturers. For all their faults and I get they may not be for everyone, but the only company that seems to get it and has a clear identity at the moment is Nintendo. Let's see if they can continue that trend with the Switch 2, whenever it arrives. God yeah. "Games for Windows" basically ended up meaning 'avoid like the plague'. They are really good at convincing people that they've learned from past mistakes and 'this time will be different' though. From previous stories it seems pretty clear that the way MS divisions and managers operate internally is a big part of the issue. Each division doing their own thing and in competition with the others, but also each manager wanting to get in on anything that might be successful. I think it was someone from Mojang who talked about the way the MS corporate culture affected them, and they'd have managers from other divisions who didn't really understand their product, wanting to get GfW or MSAccounts or other stuff included in Minecraft. Plus they're a Tech company, not a games/entertainment company. Which means making a decent profit isn't enough, they have to be disrupting the market, putting their competitors out of business, creating new markets, seeing exponential growth and implementing the 'next big thing'. Tbf, it seems to be working reasonably well for MS as a whole. But it's not just about making some profitable games and selling 25% more consoles, it's about implementing a Streaming TV AI driven Cloud-gaming based subscription service with 300Billion users who can play Halo on everything from their toaster to their car etc... |
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