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Post by Saul1138 on Oct 22, 2021 4:56:31 GMT
Pretty much out of nowhere, it seems time travel is just a thing in the Star Trek universe but that hasn't caused any major problems Didn’t that start in DS9? When Bashir, Dax and Sisko are accidentally transported to 21st century San Francisco they kind of change time, with a little fudging of the events. Then, when O’Brien keeps travelling five hours into the future, and sees DS9 destroyed, he plots with his future self to prevent that happening. Consequences result in nowt happening.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 22, 2021 8:44:53 GMT
Pretty much out of nowhere, it seems time travel is just a thing in the Star Trek universe but that hasn't caused any major problems Didn’t that start in DS9? When Bashir, Dax and Sisko are accidentally transported to 21st century San Francisco they kind of change time, with a little fudging of the events. Then, when O’Brien keeps travelling five hours into the future, and sees DS9 destroyed, he plots with his future self to prevent that happening. Consequences result in nowt happening. Not up on my Trek lore but yes. There's also a weird alternate dimension apparently created by Kirk where Kira is a creepy sex person and Julian is doing his gruff villian voice (but Jennifer is still an angel so she can fall in love with Sisko again after he shags Dax)
It's a good thing that was followed by Improbable Cause, because they really needed a couple of great episodes
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Star Trek
Oct 22, 2021 9:03:47 GMT
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Post by spacein_vader on Oct 22, 2021 9:03:47 GMT
Dean Stockwell showing up probably doesn’t help there either Just reached that ep. Yikes
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Star Trek
Oct 22, 2021 10:05:24 GMT
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Post by simple on Oct 22, 2021 10:05:24 GMT
Didn’t that start in DS9? When Bashir, Dax and Sisko are accidentally transported to 21st century San Francisco they kind of change time, with a little fudging of the events. Then, when O’Brien keeps travelling five hours into the future, and sees DS9 destroyed, he plots with his future self to prevent that happening. Consequences result in nowt happening. Not up on my Trek lore but yes. There's also a weird alternate dimension apparently created by Kirk where Kira is a creepy sex person and Julian is doing his gruff villian voice (but Jennifer is still an angel so she can fall in love with Sisko again after he shags Dax)
It's a good thing that was followed by Improbable Cause, because they really needed a couple of great episodes
The mirror universe sucks and its totally creepy that Sisko uses it as an opportunity to bobe the old man
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 11:13:20 GMT
He'd probably done a fake Dax every which way in the holosuite anyway, mirror universe Dax was just a new and thrilling kink.
It's in the subtext.
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Post by RadicalRex on Oct 22, 2021 12:46:59 GMT
"I want Quark to stay because, er, I want the station to be repopulated and stuff"
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Oct 22, 2021 13:51:04 GMT
When you think about it, if the Department Of Temporal Investigations were as committed to their jobs as they claim to be, they should have had to undo the events of The Voyage Home and kill Earth in the process.
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Post by Saul1138 on Oct 22, 2021 14:05:24 GMT
When you think about it, if the Department Of Temporal Investigations were as committed to their jobs as they claim to be, they should have had to undo the events of The Voyage Home and kill Earth in the process. They wouldn’t need to if they had stopped Kirk from returning that Air Force pilot back to his place in time. It is almost like they turn a blind eye to anything that results in the end of the Federation. You would think that there would be at least one jobsworth, with a futuristic clip board, bad moustache, and generally unloved, with a catchphrase like, “I hate you, Kirky.”
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Post by RadicalRex on Oct 23, 2021 1:49:45 GMT
Tried to watch a few different sci-fi shows on Netflix and Amazon Prime. There has been talk about how the idea of no character conflict hurt TNG, but there have also been voices (Ron Moore among them, I believe) who said they took it as a challenge to write different kinds of scripts. Of people who are actual professionals working together to resolve a situation. Now watching those other shows, most of them were just proving that point. So-called sci-fi usually drowned in a bunch of idiots being antaganostic towards each other because apparently pitting people against each other is the only thing you can do to make TV. Interstellar--being the most outstanding example of approaching actual sci-fi--had fantastic sci-fi moments but was again let down by stupid interpersonal drama, with people yelling at each other, fighting each other and trying to kill each other. And even that is far from the "morons in space fighting each other" I got in most sci-fi shows I tried. That is bad TV, bad cinema, bad sci-fi. However much I criticise TNG for going over the top sometimes with the no-conflict rule, it made much better TV than most of the other garbage. The more I try these shows, the more I realise how much they rely on stupid lazy garbage writing.
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Oct 23, 2021 8:26:53 GMT
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Post by simple on Oct 23, 2021 8:26:53 GMT
I think the no conflict rule is part of why TNG was such a hit with such a big diverse audience including demographics not seen as typical sci-fi audiences. Its such a comfortable show without any macho posturing.
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Star Trek
Oct 23, 2021 10:34:51 GMT
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Post by technoish on Oct 23, 2021 10:34:51 GMT
Except for Riker entering a chair
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Post by RadicalRex on Oct 23, 2021 22:46:25 GMT
Maybe I should add a little more nuance to yesterday's drunk rant. There is room for interpersonal conflict, I mean TOS had Spock and McCoy and I wouldn't trade their arguments for anything. But they were still aware of their responsibilities, they had respect for each other and silently acknowledged each other's competence even if they didn't like to admit it. VOY had conflict between the crew, but to a reasonable amount and many of them didn't actually choose to become Starfleet officers. Yet they still understood the importance of working together as a team. Most of the time, they were reasonable. DS9 had a lot of conflict, and it wouldn't be half as good without it, but the setting allowed it so it's fine. DS9 is not a Starfleet station where everyone chose to go through SF academy and follow the orders of the station commander. It's a complicated situation with a lot of conflicting interests and grey areas. The point is, you can have conflict to a reasonable extent depending on setting, but more often tha not a film or TV show just does it for the sake of it, because it thinks it can't do anything without people being at each other's throats. Shortly before my previous post, the last thing I watched (and what made me angry) was the first episode of Netflix's Another Life. So there's this crazy alien artifact and now we're sending a ship on a mission to make contact with the aliens. As one of the crew members puts it, this is the most important mission in the history of mankind. If it is, then why the fuck did they send a bunch of antagonistic idiots who don't even know each other's names after they wake up from cryo sleep? Is this supposed to be a sci-fi show that wants to be taken seriously or is it some demented reality TV like Big Brother? I had similar problems with the early episodes of Discovery. Everything's dark, everybody hates each other, people are mean to each other for no good reason, and people kill each other for shock value. Because that's apparently how a TV show has to be. It's the main reason why I was among those who felt that this isn't Star Trek. Back to TNG, there was that episode "Ensign Ro". A new character is introduced to the crew who is pretty antagonistic, but the episode does a good job explaining her reasons and motivations. To some extent, at least in my opinion, she's an interesting character that brings some conflict to the often too sterile show that is TNG. But soon after, in some of the next episodes she appears in, she's instantly being antagonistic just for the sake of it, to create conflict without good reason ("I did whatever I liked, and I didn't ask for permission because you could've said no"). That's one of those moments where I think the no-conflict rule may have been more beneficial than not.
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 24, 2021 8:27:35 GMT
Another Life is a great example of why the Star Trek crew formula works so well. I started watching it right after finishing a DS9 rewatch, so perhaps it was just the jolt that came from the very different approach, but it was unbearable how much the crew all hated each other.
Not only that, but they are all really shit at what they do. The show even seems to lampshade that they are completely out of their depths, are crap at their roles and too young to be there. Within a couple of episodes you have this leathal lifeform brought onboard through soil samples that the botonist failed to realise contained the components for living organisms. This is followed by the doctor having a borderline panic attack, shouting "I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do!" when the thing starts to develop in one of the crew. None of them seem to be able to deal under pressure at all and there is zero professionalism amongst them.
This wouldn't be so bad if they weren't sent on a humanity defining mission. Rather than selecting people that were actually fit for the undertaking, they seem to have just gathered as many impossibly beautiful people together and hope they some how stumble through.
Star Trek, even when you have the slightly more fractious DS9 crew, are always brilliant people working together to achieve a common goal. There is something quite comforting in that.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Oct 25, 2021 9:36:40 GMT
It's interesting - I watched that B movie Life at the weekend and there were shades of Trek ethos in that. A talented crew, each with important roles to play who may disagree on what to do but nobody really goes "rogue" or whatever. Someone is willing to do the hard part but there isn't really any inter-character conflict.
Whatever new crew they make needs to have characters thinking different things based on their experiences but, ultimately, recognise that they're all there for a reason and wouldn't be if they weren't good at their job. You can have the conflict come from others trying to split them up.
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razz
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Oct 25, 2021 10:14:52 GMT
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Post by razz on Oct 25, 2021 10:14:52 GMT
Another Life really pissed me off with that shit, how in the fuck were these people selected for this mission?!
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Oct 25, 2021 10:17:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 10:17:02 GMT
Another Life really pissed me off with that shit, how in the fuck were these people selected for this mission?! Their HR persons favourite film was Prometheus.
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Oct 25, 2021 10:22:48 GMT
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Post by simple on Oct 25, 2021 10:22:48 GMT
Which is the one where a dude lets Jennifer Lawrence out if hypersleep early so he can trick her into having sex with him?
Their HR team probably needs an audit too
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razz
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Oct 25, 2021 10:26:25 GMT
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Post by razz on Oct 25, 2021 10:26:25 GMT
Les Passonges?
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Star Trek
Oct 25, 2021 10:41:01 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 25, 2021 10:41:01 GMT
Passengers is such a bizarre film. It is clear that it wasn't the film that they intended to make originally. They have a whole The Shining bar riff that only really makes sense if Chris Pratt is depicted as a the creep he clearly is. Someone important obviously decided that they need to make him heroic though.
There was interesting video, I think by Nerdwriter, where he talks about re-editing the film so it is from Jennifer Lawrence's perspective. It would have made a huge amount of more sense if they had of done that and been a much better film.
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Star Trek
Oct 25, 2021 10:57:56 GMT
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Post by simple on Oct 25, 2021 10:57:56 GMT
I can imagine the execs and marketing panicking when they realised they can’t sell a film as Starlord: Space Rapist off the coat tails of Jurassic World and the MCU
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 26, 2021 16:35:54 GMT
Just finished series 3 of DS9 and it's gone all Invasion of the Body Snatchers
The Dominion are pretty frightening. Sisko's handling of the situation on the Defiant was a bit rubbish though. Teams of two when one of them could be the imposter? Wouldn't you have teams of three? And not testing the doctor's blood before having him test other people. The goatee might be affecting his judgement
And who the fuck is Leeta?
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Star Trek
Oct 26, 2021 17:01:56 GMT
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Post by spacein_vader on Oct 26, 2021 17:01:56 GMT
Let's is a dabo girl working at Quarks who attracts Rom with her impressive... lobes.
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Whizzo
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 26, 2021 20:19:18 GMT
Leeta being an admiral and the leader of Bajor in the Mirror Universe is a nicely silly thing in Star Trek Online.
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Post by RadicalRex on Oct 26, 2021 21:47:09 GMT
I don't like the Leeta character because she's depicted as such a stupid bimbo. That said, she has gorgeous... eyes.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 26, 2021 22:06:18 GMT
I don't like the Leeta character because she's depicted as such a stupid bimbo. That said, she has gorgeous... eyes. I swear she had one brief scene where she hooked up with Bashir like a groupie in Quark's and then the next time she pops up she's Dax's best mate and everyone knows who she is
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Star Trek
Oct 27, 2021 8:13:24 GMT
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Post by spacein_vader on Oct 27, 2021 8:13:24 GMT
Leeta being an admiral and the leader of Bajor in the Mirror Universe is a nicely silly thing in Star Trek Online. Minor tangent. Is Star Trek Online any good or is it the usual pay to win nonsense?
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Star Trek
Oct 27, 2021 8:53:56 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 27, 2021 8:53:56 GMT
From someone that dislikes MMOs, I thought it was pretty shit. Lots and lots of gear that offers miniscule benefits. Very cookie cutter levels, with pretty much everything being focused on very poor combat.
I was initially swayed by the developers clear love for the franchise. They really know their stuff and pluck small bits and pieces from the lore that they expand upon. Unfortunately though, the stories that they actual go on to tell from there are very much bad fan fiction levels.
It's free, so if you are interested you might as well give it a go, but I found it pretty poor. It also only made me even more wishful for a good Star Trek single player RPG.
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Star Trek
Oct 27, 2021 9:53:40 GMT
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Post by simple on Oct 27, 2021 9:53:40 GMT
The environments never look very Trek-y whenever I’ve seen gameplay, outside of the ships its just typical generic gamey dungeon terrain
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Whizzo
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Oct 27, 2021 14:31:07 GMT
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 27, 2021 14:31:07 GMT
There's a lot of fun in STO, space combat is the highlight but it is showing its age now on the ground.
You really don't need to spend any money to get enjoyment out of it. I actually took a life sub out when it was in beta, at a reduced cost, before it was F2P and haven't put much time into it for a long time but I had fun.
My main is a former Borg and my usual ship is a Jem'hadar cruiser so I'm not exactly standard Starfleet in outlook.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 14:51:46 GMT
The ground combat was shit when I tried it back in 2017/8 ish. Also it seemed for the best ships, pay them for rip off prices
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